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Hi,
Still very much a beginner to understanding all this theory! I’ve been mulling over something about keys and I’ve confused myself I think.
Basically, in your chord progression, which chord consistutes the key? In the Gilmour style lesson, Brian says most people would generally use the first chord as the key but in that lesson you start on the four chord and resolve to the one chord and that is the key to use.
So, is it just artistic style which chord you use in that situation or was there a specific reason?
I’ve been playing some basic stuff with some friends of late and we occasionally chuck chords together (as you do!) to come up with a nice progression, but I find it hard to work out what should be the key.
Thank you for any help!
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The root note ( the one/1st note played in any chord) here is my take..it can get complicated because you can have the root note in the same key making if difficult to explain in theory here in one reply.. learn the notes on the first two low strings from open to the twelfth fret ..that be the top two heavy strings closest to your nose.. when you play a chord the name of the key for the various chord shapes be it major minor 7th extended chord vary depending of the root note of the key in the octaves up the fret board.. another words the root note changes as you find the key/root note for the type of chord up the fret board. plenty of tutorials here as well as out youtube
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I think of it in terms of the 1, 4, and 5 chords. So if you’re in the key of A (the 1st chord) count upwards starting with A, so A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5. Then A, D, and E are your 3 typical chords, and the root chord is A.
So, if someone says “Let’s play this in D”, we would look like pros if we had already memorized the 1, 4, 5 chords for D (D, G, A) rather than having to count them out on our fingers. But what if the song starts on the 4 chord? By listening to some of the song, it should be pretty easy to figure out which 3 chords are being used. The two that are only 1 step apart are not the root note, so the other chord is the root chord. This works for 99% of all songs.
But if you have some weird chord progressions, it can indeed be kind of hard to figure out which key it’s in. For that purpose, I just try to figure out where on the neck can I play the 1st position pentatonic scale that works with the song, then use that to figure out the key (depends on whether it’s played as a major or minor pentatonic scale).
Sunjamr Steve
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Steve makes good points,, also some chords in say jazz progressions don’t use the root notes .. i remember a tutorial with 7th chords on Justin guitar site explaining this.. but start the easy way and familiarize yourself with notes and intervals and how major and minor scales are made using intervals /notes of scales ..learn notes of each string along the fret board the fret board and how chords are structured as I mentioned ,,also try after that to understand the circle of fourths ..try understanding what a one four five progression is and than more complicated progressions like jazz progressions ..it ain’t too complicated.. I know Brian teaches some good tutorials on this theory inquiry.
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When I have a slow day at work I take a pencil and map out all the chords for some key and then check with the internet if I’m right. Gets quicker every time as I can write most of them down from memory. It really helps if you can tell I-IV-V from memory for the usual major keys (C, D, E, F, G, A).
If you have a guitar in hand, you can try figuring the key by ear (there is a lesson here for that, so I won’t go into specifics). It works and you will get quicker.
It will also help your “guess” if you familiarize with the conventions of the genre you play in. Is the band led by a piano? Try starting a guess from key of C. Is it a bluegrass? Try G. Country? D or A. Blues? A or E etc.
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Thank you for the explanations guys 🙂
I think I have heard all this in Brian’s videos but my brain wasn’t quite connecting it all together at the moment. I’m very happy for Brian to keep on talking about the ground rules in every video lesson as it does help to piece it all together!
I’m currently at work at the moment but I have printed a fretboard diagram with all the notes written on (and one for the five paying patterns) and its stuck to the wall in front of me. I’m hoping that just regular glances at it will help me to take on those root notes of the two low strings!
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@Jon G, one little tip that helped me. You know that the 12th fret is the octave for the E and A string. You know that the 5th fret E string is the A of the 5th string (esp. for tuning purposes). Here’s the tip; the 7th fret of the 5th string is the E octave of the 6th string (and likewise for the 7th fret 4th string relative to the 5th string). Now you just have to fill in what’s missing and you probably already know thw 1st position note names.
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The I chord of a key is home. Trips don’t always start from home, but they tend to arrive back home. So in music, the key that you are in is often, but not always, the first chord of a song. It is much more reliable that the key is the last chord of the song.
To keep the analogy going: sometimes, on a long trip, you make several places your temporary home. Same thing happens in some music as a song temporarily moves from one key to another. So its possible for a song to move through several keys. In that case, we typically identify the song’s key with where it ends up (although there are exceptions even to this rule).
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I just discovered that myself Duffy.. it is not always the root note of a progression.. was at couple links i saved it is pretty much as you say.. drop 2 drop 3 diminished scales chordal pregressions.. but to keep it simple to answer jON G question.. it best have a better understanding what a root of a chord is and how chords are built and what are intervals and how to build a major minor 7ths diminished alternate suspended 6ths 9ths 13ths so on.. I can barely understand what Robin Ford is explaining here..I’ll post two links Andrew Wassons link https://youtu.be/cCL0l8DRvAA this too might give an idea..https://youtu.be/jUd18pf1T7o?list=RDWee-U1fWQQI
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Last half hour I been getting into Andrew Wasson’s “making sense of chord progressions” I use to watch him speed talk these lessons and most what he said back a few seasons, went over my head..Now I understand but still have to pause especially this lesson ,, he speeds through it ..so pause it rewind it ..i saved it to my bookmarks.. JonG, to help answer your question, RECOMMEND first to do as I stated above.. it will than be much easier to understand a good question but complicated to answer .. focus on the instructors lessons i Linked above.. As much as Robin Ford is interesting lesson..it isn’t as important for WE beginners as Andrew Wasson’s lessons.. lots of great instructorials i refer to but you need to take it slow all the same. theory is essential it is like learning the language and how to speak read and write music.. it really is mathematics language.. to develope a greater understanding of advanced theory ..have to start and understand to speak read it to answer that level of skill on a guitar..start at the beginner lessons even if you already know,, i do it all the time with different instructors all over youtube,, tons of guides on theory..Start from the beginning ,, I did it tonight! lol
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No problem sure it is what this thread/forum is all about,, Jon G .. your question was good enough for me to start mulling about key signatures and such ..here are two of many sites I have bookmarked over the years.. Dave Walliman https://youtu.be/mCAD5l7iMS8 and you can pick up ideas too @ fretjam Pentatonic scales playing modals inside the penta scale (which is 5 note scale in either a major or minor .. try looking up how to play inside the pentatonic scale using the modes.. that is a great lesson at walliman ..going there today to practice ..cheers!
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here is one of many that can help answer our inquiries to playing the right notes in the key of progressions .. check this out go it slow and listen to Dave ,, I’m doing this lesson after this post .. he has plenty like this too https://youtu.be/UlQ3i4n2MaQ
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