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For me it s really amazing and impressing how many creative and different Versions of the monthly Topic have been “delivered” from the members. At each Video or Audio – from simple covering to a high-leveled improvisation – you can feel the motivation and the wish, to give the best. My only little Problem is the time it needs, to learn that lesson and to perform a video. And that time I lack for my priority goals like Scales, Arpeggios or preferred Styles like Country. Therefore, it could be, to leave out one or the other challenge. By the way – what is exactly to understand of “Improvisation”? Is it only the totally free spontaneous playing, or also for example a modified developed version of Brian s Lesson?
Dieter
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I think improvisation for me is to understand root positions whether it’s minor / major pentatonic and just go with it the 3rd interval impro on the jan challenge was for me another building block I worked out where the notes were and just started playing and noodling and got something out of it . It was very interesting to hear everyone’s take on it .
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For me it s really amazing and impressing how many creative and different Versions of the monthly Topic have been “delivered” from the members. At each Video or Audio – from simple covering to a high-leveled improvisation – you can feel the motivation and the wish, to give the best. My only little Problem is the time it needs, to learn that lesson and to perform a video. And that time I lack for my priority goals like Scales, Arpeggios or preferred Styles like Country. Therefore, it could be, to leave out one or the other challenge. By the way – what is exactly to understand of “Improvisation”? Is it only the totally free spontaneous playing, or also for example a modified developed version of Brian s Lesson?
Dieter
Dieter,
I agree with you! With regards to the time it needs, we only abandon these compositions, we don’t really finish them. I think in hind sight, what we create is always left there for us to build upon and improve. I worked really hard at developing my composition only to abandon most of it for what I improvised in about five minutes when I recorded it. Go figure. Like most other things, they rarely turn out the way you expect. -
Improv is a loose term
Anything that’s not in the lesson that you’ve added is improv.
Just do the lesson and see what it inspires you to do time permitting, if all your able to do is a run through then so be it, each lesson tests each player differently.
This month I focused on running through 280 multiple times and getting into a groove, for some lessons just getting up to Brian’s speed is a challenge and I’ve been working on 266 for quite a while.
For 280 I’m doing the follow up 242 but in my own time
For Improv I like to be on Theme if I can’t do it in the time or what I’ve come up with isn’t what I feel is up to standard it doesn’t go in.
For me its not speed or scales but has to fit
Obviously this is a personal view 😉
Everyone should play to their own beat
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This month is the 1st time ever I have done an improv for the challenge response, there is nothing in the rules that says you can’t just do improv, in fact Brian encourages us to take the lesson provided and run with it..
I have scores of half started lessons to my credit, I have always felt that even though Brian supplies us with great content that it is overwhelming in its amount, this imho is a drawback to players of my skill and understanding level, if I were to change anything then it would be the closing date for submissions, I would make that a fixed date each and every month, I would also like to see some sort of personal check box to show which responses we have already replied to, cos losing your place in 40+ submissions is a pain....Billy..
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Even with professionals a high percentage of “improv” is using the musical vocabulary they’ve already built of licks and phrases and pathways around the fretboard, and just creating music that fits the rhythm and mood of the piece.
Blues players improvise with the same basic scales and boxes but it’s different every time. I guess the main difference is memorizing a TAB solo versus “stepping off” the tabs and just playing. Sometimes I work out ideas or riffs ahead of time, sometimes I just get into the zone and play. But even then I’m usually falling back on scales and patterns that I’ve built into my vocabulary.As for the time commitment of the challenges, when I’m too busy I just skip a challenge. But every day I try to run fundamental scales and licks and improve my general proficiency and technique, that’s a priority: challenges are like applying those basics to a particular melody or song. So I hope the challenges continue, even if I don’t participate in all of them.
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I have heard Keith Whyatt say that when he improvises, anything he plays in the moment isn’t something he hasn’t played before or doesn’t already know. Improvising to him is spontaneously pulling licks, phrases and ideas from his vocabulary of music he has stored in his subconscious.
He refers to it like a language. When someone asks you to speak you don’t make up words on the spot. You pull words from the vocabulary you already know and spontaneously arrange them to come up with a coherent response.
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Dieter,
I am into my third year at AM. When I first joined, I participated in most every challenge. I played lessons that were outside my normal genre and enjoyed them. Some say that’s good for your playing, but for me these things don’t sink into my personal style. I need to constantly be working on licks etc. to get them ingrained. So now I only participate if the lesson is really in tune with what I am working at the time. Otherwise it is too much time on a piece that will fade quickly.As for improv, I think on the forum people use that term to mean any original additions to the lesson. I recall a well known musician saying that improv is musical composition in real time, and I tend to go with something like that. The individual notes, licks, rhythms might not be new but the final piece is unique. I have wondered if I am fooling myself thinking I can compose (improvise) at 120 bpm when I have done almost no composition in the normal sense.
Bob
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Dieter,
I have the same feelings as you on the challenges. I have had a hard time finding time to learn the things I feel like I should be learning right now (for instance positions 4 and 5 of the pentatonic scale, more pentatonic licks in each position, understanding how to play different chords in different parts of the neck, etc), and still finding the time to get a challenge video in. For example, I am kind of bouncing back and forth between the blues course and EP266 right now, and with those keeping me busy in the limited time I have, I had no time for this months challenge. I think for now, if the challenge fits into what I am trying to learn, then I might give it a shot. If not, I will just skip it and continue with whatever I am working on. -
I like what people have said about improvisation. For me it’s a lot like interpretation—anything that differs from the composed/written/intended music is improv. “Improv” comes very close to sounding like “improve,” which is what I think most people are hoping for.
The idea a totally free improvisation was pursued (on a guitar!) by Derek Bailey. He was someone I paid attention to for a few months in the early ’90s, I read his book, Improvisation: Its Nature and Practice, discussed it with other musicians, then forgot about it, but never completely. He was a highly skilled jazz and studio guitarist before he moved into a realm that made him sound like he couldn’t play. He eschewed all the cliches of all the genres as much as possible (there was one song of his that used a cartoon melody, and I liked it, but it seemed odd for him, wish I could remember the title). Even though I didn’t like his sound, I thought he was a genuine artist. Anyone that thinks this sounds interesting, there are quite a few external links at the end of the Wikipedia article about him (link to Wiki article in his name above).
Don D.
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I have heard Keith Whyatt say that when he improvises, anything he plays in the moment isn’t something he hasn’t played before or doesn’t already know. Improvising to him is spontaneously pulling licks, phrases and ideas from his vocabulary of music he has stored in his subconscious.
He refers to it like a language. When someone asks you to speak you don’t make up words on the spot. You pull words from the vocabulary you already know and spontaneously arrange them to come up with a coherent response.
To Ivan’s point this is so true. All good points here. I think the whole point of these challenges is learning a much broader vocabulary so that the player can be more articulate in their playing. For me, this challenge was stretching myself beyond the usual classic rock routine.
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I think it was around a year ago when we had a lengthy thread on the meaning of “improv”. The consensus was that if you put on a jamtrack and just start playing what comes into your head, that’s improv. But if you develop some improv for a jamtrack, then remember it so that you can play it exactly – or nearly exactly – the same later on, then that’s a composition. Usually both improv and compositions involve pulling licks from the lick library in our brains. Only rarely do we come up with “virgin improv”. Judging by what our members say during the monthly challenges, most of us have pre-planned our improv, so we have actually created a composition.
And one of the most important things I have learned from this forum is: You can’t learn to do improv unless you sit down and try doing it. During your practice time, you have to put on a jamtrack, and just start playing whatever comes into your head. You will suck when you first try it, but gradually you will get better at it.
Sunjamr Steve
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Ivan – I actually recorded an earlier version of the challenge that was more improvised that Keith listened to. We both felt that it lacked something. He pointed out that a song from that era would have had a melody rather than just being a stand alone progression. He suggested that I write out a melody over the progression which I did on the version that I submitted. Was the melody improvised – no but I could have played it in several positions and embellished here and there if I had chose to. That would be considered improvisation. I like Keith’s example of B.B. King – he never played the same solo twice but he always used ideas from a vocabulary that he already knew and just rearranged them differently every time. Keith likens true improvisation to trying to write a book in a language you do not speak. Improvisation is the spontaneous reorganization of ideas that you already know.
Speaking for myself, if I try to play a memorized solo it sounds like a memorized solo. I was in a blues band that played over 500 gigs and never had a set solo for any song but usually did have an intro and went from there. That is the way I have found most players approach it – you need a strong opening idea then you rearrange the other parts. I used to keep a book of phrases that I would work on and could play without thinking and just constantly rearrange the ideas. I have also played with a lot of singer-songwriters who would call out changes and feels for songs I had never heard and I just tried to shoehorn my existing ideas into those songs. Sometimes it worked sometimes it didn’t.
I just found this site a couple of months ago and have participated in the last two challenges. What I find unique here is the emphasis on melody which is why I assumed it was called Active Melody. I feel pretty confident about improvising over blues changes but it is refreshing to find a site like this with a varying array of styles and an emphasis on melodic playing. I think Brian is doing a really great job with the lessons
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I have heard Keith Whyatt say that when he improvises, anything he plays in the moment isn’t something he hasn’t played before or doesn’t already know. Improvising to him is spontaneously pulling licks, phrases and ideas from his vocabulary of music he has stored in his subconscious.
He refers to it like a language. When someone asks you to speak you don’t make up words on the spot. You pull words from the vocabulary you already know and spontaneously arrange them to come up with a coherent response.
I got Keith Wyatt’s stuff before he got all his gray hair. The guy is tops.
The melody of the notes is what expresses the art of music . 🙂 6stringerPete
It really is all about ”melody”. The melody comes from a language from our heart. Our heart is the muscle in music harmony. The melody is the sweetness that it pumps into our musical thoughts on the fretboard. 🙂 6 stringer Pete
Pete
Active Melody
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Hi Dieter.
I always understood improvisation as something NOT prepared, something created “on the fly”. Anyway is true what steve pointed about “library licks” that many musicians use when “improvising” even Jazz musicians..
I could say, that in my case, I NEVER improvise in my challenges. I always prepare a solo, otherwise it sounds horrible/boring to me. And many times, using similar licks Brian used with small changes (or big changes). This process use to take me more time than learning the lesson, but I think that I’ve learned something more than if I verbatim the lesson.
Normally, I’ve start by learning and playing the lesson until an acceptable level, then, I start to create a “solo” adding 2 or 3 chords/compass maximum at a time until complete a 2nd loop (no time for 3rd 4rth loop to me ..)
It worked to me to focus more in be accurate playing the lesson first, and then extend to 2nd loop. But, each one of us are different, and at the end, the important is to have fun whit that, so if someone just like to impro on top backtrack is ok too.
Hope it helps
David B.
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