Pentatonic switching from minor to major licks & vice versa

[Mark H]

Brian has hipped us all to the fact that when playing a song in a major key we can switch from major- to minor pentatonic-based licks (and back) and it sounds great when he does it. In my case, it’s hit and miss; sometimes it sounds OK, other times it just doesn’t work at all.

I’ve noticed he tends to walk down (or up) to arrive at the scale pattern he’s modulating to (if it’s not overlapping where he is), so I get that. I also get that you have to hear it in your head to pull it off; I do hear it internally but usually it just sounds off.

My question is are there specific intervals in the target pattern I should be aiming to land on for initiating the next phrase?

Just wondering if there’s a trick to it that I’ve missed so far in the lessons.

[Mark H]

Later… I went back to see if I’d missed anything and rediscovered EP437, mixing the scales in a jazzy 12 bar blues in C. I suspect if I digest all of that content I’ll be able to answer at least some of my questions on this. But please feel free to chime in anyway if you have any tips; I’d kill to be able to do that thing.

[charjo]

Hi Mark,
Most of the 12 bar major blues is the interplay of the I7 and the IV7. The minor 3rd interval over the I7 is the sound of the blues. It is often bent slightly to hint toward the major 3rd or even hammered on from the minor 3rd to the major 3rd. The problem is when playing that major 3rd over the IV7 it becomes the major 7 of the IV7, which sounds awful against the flat 7 of that chord. This is where you have to be aware how a note in your hybrid major/minor composite blues scale functions against the current chord, either to sound harmonious or create tension. To target the major third of the IV7 you have to target the major 6th of the scale which functions as the major 3rd over the IV7. Alternatively you could bend up from the flat 6 or hammer from the flat 6 to the 6. This is the whole concept of targeting chord tones on the chord change. Within your scale you are looking for a 1, 3, 5, b7 for the current chord. This is a concept that has taken me a few years to start to get under my fingers. I guess it starts with listening for the chord change and how what you play sounds over each chord but starting with targeting the major 3rd of each chord will take you a long way.
John

[Jean-Michel G]

Hi Mark,
This is a very complicated question whose answer(s) are even more complicated!

When you (or Brian) say that you can play minor pentatonic-based phrases in a major context, I’d really like to qualify this a bit further: yes, indeed, but only if you want to sound bluesy and if that fits the mood of the song. On a standard 12-bar blues this is of course never a problem, but in other contexts (e.g. pop) playing off a minor pentatonic scale will not necessarily cut it.

It is always useful to be able to relate whatever you play to the underlying harmony. In the attached jpeg I have represented the I7, IV7 and V7 arpeggios in whatever key (say A major if the root on the 6th string of the first diagram happens to be at the 5th fret). On each diagram, I have also indicated in light gray the notes of the minor pentatonic of that key (Am pentatonic for example). You’ll recognize what people usually call “pattern 1”.
I recommend learning these three arpeggios and trying to make them sound musical. Once you are comfortable with them, start changing some notes of whatever arpeggio you are playing and replace them with notes from the minor pentatonic. You’ll very quickly discover that some substitutions sound great but others sound awful.
The important thing is to always “see” these patterns on the fingerboard.

Hope this helps.
JM

[Mark H]

Thanks guys, your input helps a lot. I for sure need to get down to analyzing exactly what intervals I’m playing when I hit those composite- (and also distinct major- or minor) licks after establishing a particular feel, and/or changing to the I – IV and V. In other words, learn to avoid some intervals while targeting others, depending on the context of the phrase.

Does that sum up where you’re coming from when you’ve got them under your fingers (i.e. have gotten them into your ‘fast brain’) and are playing them up to speed without thinking about it? I’ll be returning to this thread to review what you’ve said as I get deeper into the intervals and will certainly study-up on those arpeggios.

I also rediscovered EP311, 312 & 313 which contain a lot of what I missed the first time around. This time I’ll spend more time actually playing and less time watching Brian play, as enjoyable as that is. Bottom line, I need to put my brain, ears and fingers to work to nail this.

[charjo]

Hi Mark,
Both approaches are helpful. Arpeggios show you the the location of all the chord tones. Brian doesn’t emphasize intervals with respect to the root of a chord but many other teachers do and I think it’s invaluable. Another approach is to understand the note names of your chords and where those notes are located on the fretboard. Every little bit helps. If I was starting over I would learn everything in the area of box 1 and box 2 minor pentatonic (ie. intervals, major/minor scales, myxolydian, dorian, available chromatic notes etc. and start making music there before trying to learn everything about the fretboard.
John

[Jean-Michel G]

charjo wrote:

Hi Mark,
If I was starting over I would learn everything in the area of box 1 and box 2 minor pentatonic (ie. intervals, major/minor scales, myxolydian, dorian, available chromatic notes etc. and start making music there before trying to learn everything about the fretboard.
John

I couldn’t agree more with this!
Classical guitarists do exactly that – although classical guitarists don’t worry much about modes 😉

[Mark H]

Thanks again for your insights. I’m kinda coming at this backwards… I already play through the changes based on chord inversions when soloing and am very familiar with CAGED, even though I never called it that. This comes from a background in finger style arrangements, including a lot of dead hard stuff like Rev. Gary Davis, Blind Blake, Merle Travis, classic ragtime pieces and assorted jazz tunes that took my fancy.

I was kinda bored with all that and figured it would give me a head start on this current lead soloing project – just get the pentatonic thing happening, add the various chord inversions and extensions I already know, plug in and, voila, instant success! Turns out I still have a lot to learn. 🙂

[charjo]

Sounds like you’ve got a great head start on this, Mark. I’m sure you’ll integrate this in no time.
John

[Mark H]

Thanks John. I’m finding it liberating not focusing so much on set-pieces and getting into creative improvisation. “Integration” is exactly the right word for what I’m trying to accomplish.

[Mark H]

OK, just for the record, and for anyone else working on knowledge of which notes to target, I went back and replayed this lesson: Target Notes: Land on THESE notes when improvising lead! – EP418

I heard a lot more in the lesson the second time through. Key points for me were:

a) when playing a lick, aim to end the lick by landing on one of these intervals: 1, 3, 5 or flat 7
b) The 5th interval only really works when you’re on the V chord, so to keep it simple start working with the 1, 3 and flat 7 intervals.

OK, that’s fairly easy to practice and get going with. But The Big Lightbulb went off when Brian got to the first change, to the IV chord, and explained the following:

c) When improvising and staying in the key of the song using the minor pentatonic scale, and you change to the IV chord, aim to end the lick by landing on the 1, 3, or flat 7 of the IV chord you’re currently playing over. Bam, that’s what I was missing.

d) Likewise when playing over the V chord, target the 1, 3, or flat 7 of the V chord you’re currently playing over, but remember you have an additional interval available to target, the 5 of that V chord.

Gettin’ there… My respect for the great lead players increases by the day, wow. 😎

[Jean-Michel G]

Hi Mark,
Yes, it always pays off to review previous material – there’s always that thing you missed the first time.

Mark H wrote:

a) when playing a lick, aim to end the lick by landing on one of these intervals: 1, 3, 5 or flat 7
b) The 5th interval only really works when you’re on the V chord, so to keep it simple start working with the 1, 3 and flat 7 intervals.

Instead of “licks” I tend to think in terms of “phrases”; they’re kind of similar, but the word “lick” to me sounds like a cliché. A phrase is more creative.
Now, ending a phrase on the fifth (of the current chord) tends to create a sense of suspension, much like a question mark. If you think of your improvisation as a melodic question and answer dialogue, the 5th should have its place, even during the first four bars of a blues…

Mark H wrote:

c) When improvising and staying in the key of the song using the minor pentatonic scale, and you change to the IV chord, aim to end the lick by landing on the 1, 3, or flat 7 of the IV chord you’re currently playing over. Bam, that’s what I was missing.

d) Likewise when playing over the V chord, target the 1, 3, or flat 7 of the V chord you’re currently playing over, but remember you have an additional interval available to target, the 5 of that V chord.

This is exactly what you get with arpeggios (and is exactly why I mentioned them in an earlier reply!). Improvising with arpeggios (only) is far less common in blues than it is in jazz (for example), but it is nevertheless important to learn them so you can visualize and target the chord tones.

Seems like you’re on your way to become a great lead player yourself! 🙂

[Mark H]

Thanks Jean-Michel. Yes, I prefer ‘phrase’ also, it’s more accurate and descriptive of what we’re trying to do when playing a lead break.

I take your point re. the 5th coloring where you’re going, like a few other tones outside of the 1,3,5,flat 7. For example I’m partial to the sharp 5, some call it ‘augmented’, when going from the V turnaround chord back to the I. Then there are all those cool tones you can pick out of a 13th chord, and minor 7 flat 5 can be a winner in this context of tension – release.

Thanks for urging me to look at arpeggios again, I hear you and will be working them again now I have a somewhat clearer understanding of how some more of this puzzle fits together.

[Mark H]

OK I’ve been practicing my dominant 7th arpeggios out of the CAGED E and A shapes and you guys are dead right, it’s proving very helpful for spotting the chord tones and expanding your general knowledge of the fretboard. The chart that Jean-Michel attached to his post above is great once you get your head around it – read the instructions in his post! That’s gonna get laminated and hung on the wall.

For anyone else here wanting to start getting down with arpeggios I can also recommend this lesson from Brian:

Dominant 7th Arpeggio – How To Use In Blues – EP150

There are also quite a few other arpeggio-oriented lessons on ActiveMelody I’ll be working through. On the main lessons page, left menu ‘Lesson Categories’, just click on the handy ‘Arpeggios’ radio button to see them.

[Mark H]

.. or just click here

edit, later, yay, it worked!

[Paul V]

Hey…looking for Major Pentatonic patterns…can only find Minor?

Thanks in advance

[Jean-Michel G]

Just Google up “major pentatonic guitar licks” and you’ll have more than you probably wanted…

[Author]

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