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I have a reasonable good start on the pentatonic scales. I completed the initial CAGED starting courses (3), which were well done and viewed lesson 556.
Can I just stick with the pentatonic scales (continue building with pentatonic lessons here) and skip CAGED.?
CAGED does seen like alot..
your input is appreciatedThanks
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Hi John, I’m like you – I always fall back to the pentatonic scale. It’s the cake, and CAGED is just the icing on the cake. I’ve been an AM member for around 8 or 9 years, and I still ended up being a huge pentatonic fan. Sure, I know all the CAGED positions backwards and forwards, and I can visualize those “alternate chord voicings” (that’s what they used to call CAGED in olden days) all over the neck. Yes it’s useful knowledge, but not essential. My advice would be to noodle around with the CAGED structures at a leisurely pace, but just on the first 3 strings. To me as an experienced CAGEDer the first 3 strings are the most useful part of CAGED. Start with an F chord on the 1st fret and just play the chord scales all the way up the neck. Then start with a D chord on the 2nd fret, then wash, rinse, and repeat.
I’ve always loved John Mayer’s wise words about pentatonic scales: If you want to play in Am pentatonic, the baseline for 1st position is just a bar totally across the 5th fret. John says to think of that bar as the equator. We should learn all the notes from there right on up the neck – all 5 positions. But – he reminds us – don’t forget that you need to be able to go below that equator to the pentatonic positions on the lower frets. A lot of people forget that.
Everyone’s different, and these are just my personal preferences. I’ve seen some people go total OCD on the CAGED system. Other people go OCD on the modes. The Allman Bros were OCD on the major pentatonic scale, as were lots of the old time rock bands.
Sunjamr Steve
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Hi John,
I think pentatonics are a natural place to start to learn how to play lead guitar and sound musical but I wish I knew about CAGED a lot earlier.
Brian did a CAGED series of lessons, EP’s 556-560. Each lesson demonstrates that everything can be located in each major CAGED position, ie the chord, arpeggio, major pentatonic, major scale, most of the related triads. The I, IV, V CAGED shapes can all be found within the same region of the fret board for each of the 5 positions. Everything can be modified for the minor side.
Arpeggios and triads are the key to finding target notes to sound melodic, even within the pentatonics, but certainly to get outside the limits of the pentatonics. CAGED shapes and triads will help you find variations on licks in all positions, help you see harmonic 3rds and 6ths and also find alternate voicings for chord progressions. It’s really the template to navigate the fret board, especially when seen in the context of all the root note locations within the shapes.
I think everything you learn is useful in the final analysis so by all means focus on pentatonics but to progress I think it’s natural to move on to CAGED, triads and arpeggios even if your goal is just more advanced blues.
Even when Brian teaches lessons heavy on pentatonics there’s a little CAGED sprinkled in. Stay open to it and a bigger picture might emerge.
John -
Hi John, glad to hear you’re enjoying the pentatonic scales. Keep going with those and enjoy the heck out of ’em. You’ll be playing musically and having fun.
I wouldn’t think in terms of “skipping” CAGED. It’s way too valuable for that. But, you can learn it more casually. Let your motivation level be your guide. As John/charjo mentioned, Brian sprinkles in a little CAGED in so many of the lessons.
John also mentions the root note locations. These are the anchor points along the neck that pentatonics, CAGED, scales… everything… are connected to. Definitely learn this pattern of root notes… for instance, find all the G notes on the neck. Then notice how your G major or minor pentatonic boxes are anchored on those root notes. Take any two adjacent root locations and see which pentatonic box fits there. This same root note pattern holds for any given note, just shifted left or right, so try it for A or E. Down the road you can use the same approach to see how the CAGED shapes are anchored to those same root notes, and how triads and scales are too. It goes on and on.
Most of all, have fun with it! All the best to you.
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Hi John, I have found CAGED has played a big part in my journey. Visualisation has been a practical way for me to piece the jigsaw pieces to the fretboard puzzle. Take all the advice given from above and you will find what works for you and other connectivity elements along the way. I have found knowing how to find the 5 positions for any chord and their root notes which are an octave apart is due to CAGED. Matching the Scales to the CAGED pattern rather than to Pattern 2 etc. Also knowing CAGED as an alphabet and that the C Shape is based on the B String, A Shape is based on the A String, G Shape is based on the G String, E Shape is based on the E String and the D Shape is based on the D String. Have attached a visual of how this has helped me, not included is the Minor Pentatonic patterns, but it gives the concept of having placement on the fretboard.
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Hi John, I have found CAGED has played a big part in my journey. Visualisation has been a practical way for me to piece the jigsaw pieces to the fretboard puzzle. Take all the advice given from above and you will find what works for you and other connectivity elements along the way. I have found knowing how to find the 5 positions for any chord and their root notes which are an octave apart is due to CAGED. Matching the Scales to the CAGED pattern rather than to Pattern 2 etc. Also knowing CAGED as an alphabet and that the C Shape is based on the B String, A Shape is based on the A String, G Shape is based on the G String, E Shape is based on the E String and the D Shape is based on the D String. Have attached a visual of how this has helped me, not included is the Minor Pentatonic patterns, but it gives the concept of having placement on the fretboard.
Hey,
That’s such a great way to remember the shapes. I never saw the alphabet connection but it’s such a handy way of liking the scales boxes to the chord shapes and strings. Do you have a diagram you could share for the minor pentatonics. I’d be really grateful if you do.
Such a great community of fellow pickers.
Many thanks,
D.
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Knowledge of the pentatonic scales and CAGED are complimentary to each other, so I wouldn’t discount either of them. Just give yourself plenty of time to work with both; if you try to pack it all into a short timeframe that’s a lot to absorb. Jump around from pentatonics in one session, CAGED in another, soon you’ll start to combine the benefits of both and it will come together.
It’s like me when I’m adding an auxiliary circuit to my tractor wiring which requires a relay. Groan! What’s a relay actually do and how does it work? And what are those weird numbers on the pins? After deciding to bite the bullet, a few hours on YouTube, and I’ve gone up to the next level of ‘relay mastery’.
Limit yourself to biting-off what you can chew, and having made progress, move on to the next challenge. And don’t forget major scales, minor scales (all 3), chord harmonization, arpeggios, ear training, etc etc. You won’t regret it.
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I have been drilling the pentatonic patterns and they have been getting easier. But recently, I came across something that was very eye opening, this new system breaks all the scales down into smaller two or three string simple patterns. All of the patterns are directly derived from the major scale intervals. The emphasis was on learning the intervals and noticing the pattern of the 1 being under the 5 (first octave), the 4 being on top of the 1, the major 3rd being just under the 4, etc… Once you learn the simple basic patterns for the major scale. The same is repeated for major and minor pentatonic.
What I really like about this method of navigating the fretboard is you can start at any root note of the scale (not just on the sixth string) and ascend to the RIGHT, CENTER, or LEFT based on where you position your finger on the root note. Forefinger on the root note ascends to the right diagonally up to the next root note and the whole pattern repeats up the neck yielding a lot of freedom of movement diagonally up to the third octave on the high E string.
Starting with your middle finger on any desired root note, you can ascend across the strings if desired.
Then there is pinky on any root note to start moving left on the neck which enables you to descend back down to lower notes or simply get back to open position area. So in effect, there are three different patterns per scale type and they are very straight forward to remember and utilize.
What really impressed me the most is how much more aware of the interval number I’m playing. I always used to just memorize the pattern and that was it, but this makes me much more in tune with the exact intervals that are in play all over the neck. Obviously it still takes practice to traverse the b-string both ascending and decending, but that’s something most of us already know should be done, it’s just getting the fingers to manage the transition smoothing which is what everyone has to learn no matter the method.
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I got a ton of use out of CAGED myself. Just learning the triads on the top 3 strings, it gave me anchor points, land marks, where I could jump around the fret board much easier and connect the scales together to better understand the fretboard. I’d definitely encourage a closer look!
CAGED is an important concept for sure, but I am all in on triads and arpeggios now. Learn those in context of a musical progression or backing track and suddenly your fretboard is your oyster. For me it is the knowledge of where the R-3-5 triads are, and the 3-5-R first inversions, and the 5-R-3 second inversions are and being aware of where the 1 3 and 5 are at all times. Not just on strings 1-3, get the rest of them on 2-4, 3-5, and 4-6. No reason to leave any holes of mystery on the guitar neck.
This all carries over to arpeggios because you know where all the 1-3-5’s, 1-b3-5’s are in their various forms. Now we just play them linearly, add that dominant flat 7 and the basic structure is all there already so it’s easy to plug in the 2 and 4 and 6 play lead around each triad.
The diminished triad is just a 1-b3-b5 incase anyone was wondering. They are definitely harder to play lower down on the neck but you could arpeggiate them if you know where they are or just play the b3 and b5 before resolving to the one chord or even slide those 2 notes up into the one chromatically. It’s all very fascinating to me.
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