Mixing Major & Minor scales.

[Tim Lee]

Hi everyone,

I know that Brian has put together a lesson on mixing major and minor pentatonic scales on EP 130 where he mixes A Major pentatonic with A minor pentatonic. I tried this on an AM lesson and it just didn’t sound great.

So I tried some progressions using A Major pentatonic and then mixed in notes from it’s relative minor key which is F# and the scale notes from F# seem to be more varied and sound better to my ears than using A minor notes.

I’m not sure when mixing major with minor why you would stick to the same key ( A Maj with A Min ) and not the relative minor key of A major which is F#.

I don’t know much theory but trying to learn more and I’m working on an AM lesson in A major and want to mix it up with some minor note progressions. Right now I’m using F# minor scale notes which is the relative minor of A Major and it works real well.

Appreciate any input so I can better understand it all.

Thanks,
Tim

[Tim Lee]

Ok, so I just realized that by playing F# pentatonic scale I’m playing the same pattern as the A Major pentatonic scale but the root note is F# v’s A Maj.
What I still can’t grasp is why A minor pentatonic works with A major.

Example:

Starting with A major – If I play on 2nd string frets 12 then 10 and on 3rd string frets 11 and fret 9 and then switch to A Minor – and play frets 10 and 8 on 1st string and 10 and 8 on 2nd string then it just doesn’t seem to jell but the notes are on the A minor scale and should go well with the A major notes.

Sorry to ramble on but need some clarification from our theory gurus.

Tim

[Bob S]

Tim,

I’ll give this a shot, but I have not gone through EP 130 and I am not a theory guru. Although you don’t specifically say, I am assuming you are judging your tones (that sound good or not) against a standard blues in A.

So if you consider diatonic chords (chords made of tones only the A Major scale) then only the V chord, the E7 chord, comes from these notes. The A7 (I chord) has a flat 7 that is not in the A major scale. The IV chord, D7, has a C natural that is not in the A major scale. So the the blues is this sort of hybrid that has these chromatic (outside of A major) tones.

If you look at the Am pentatonic scale, there is only one note in the scale that is at odds with the notes in the three chords and that is the flat 3rd (C). That’s why the scale works over all three chords. The flat 3rd gives a bluesy feel to the sound. But if you loop an A7 chord and drone the C it will not sound good. That is why you’ll often hear a slight bend to the flat 3rd or a trill between flat three and three.

Now the major pentatonic scale will sound great over the I chord where the natural third and the sixth emphasize the major sound. You’ll often hear those sounds in a jazzy blues or swing style song. When you move to the IV chord the natural third (C#) sounds bad against the D7 which contains the flat third. And the E7 doesn’t sound great against the sixth (F#). So for these chords the minor pentatonic might be a better choice (without getting into other choices).

So in the end it is generally about the chord over which you are playing. For example, you could play a major pentatonic scale over the IV chord avoiding the natural third. You would end up with the dominant chord tones of 3rd, 5th and 9th. with the possible addition of the sixth which would give a bit more of a jazzy tone.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[Duffy P]

If you are mixing F# natural minor with A major scales, you aren’t getting any different notes. They are the same.

The minor pentatonic works well over a blues because of the dominant seventh chords. In an A blues you have an A7 chord, which gives you the G as the seventh. The D7 chord gives the C as the 7th, which is the minor third. Those are the two notes in the Minor Pentatonic that are not in an A major scale. Similarly, the major seventh of the major scale clashes with the dominant seventh, so its not there, and thats true of both major and minor pentatonic scales.

If you wanted to take a major scale approach to a blues, you could play a D scale over A7, a G scale over the D7 and an A scale over the E7. I don’t think many people do this, and the ones who do would likely tell you they are playing A mixolydian, D mixolydian, and E mixolydian. It’s all the same thing.

[Tim Lee]

Bob,
I’m going to have to study your response some more to fully understand it. On EP025 you’ll see what I mean where Brian plays the A minor pentatonic in the 2nd half of the solo. It sounds great when he plays it of course but if I play it super slow to begin with as I show in my example I just don’t get the same sound and my guitar is in tune so not sure what I’m doing wrong.

I don’t want to take up more of your time. I really appreciate you taking a look at it.

Tim

[Tim Lee]

Duffy,

Thanks for replying. I’m trying to figure out EP025 hence my questions.

Thanks again,
Tim

[ChordGuy]

The Minor Pentatonic scale only has two notes that are not in the Major key.

The flat or dominant seventh note. This should not be a problem for your ear especially in the Blues which tend to use that interval rather than the major seventh in the chord structure as well. If you see a Major seventh chord that dominant seventh will be too dissonant.

That just leaves the minor or flat third. This is often referred to as one of the ‘blue’ notes and is also a sound typical of blues or blues based music.

The inverse of this however dos not work. Playing a major third over a minor chord is considered an “avoid note”. It will sound VERY dissonant.

If you find notes (or chords) that are not diatonic or in the key of the song this is normal. They can add colour to the song or supply tensions that help to move the song forward. Some will be notes you may not want to sustain for long, let your ear decide.

Hope this helps

Gordo

[Tim Lee]

Gordo,

Thanks. I think your last paragraph addresses my issue. Appreciate you looking at this.
Tim

[Anonymous]

When Brian says to drop 3 frets to play the minor pentatonic over the major, is it safe to say we can do this for any major pentatonic, and that the minor will be the 6th..?

[Duffy P]

The relative minor is always the sixth note of the scale.

But you have the relationship backwards, you drop three frets from the minor to get to the major pentatonic in the same key. For example, if you are playing the first shape minor pentatonic in A, your index finger will be on fret 5. Slide to fret 2 and play the same notes, and that’s major pentaronic in A.

[Author]

Posts