Don’t wanna destroy my computer….

[MrO]

I am looking to start using pedals in my guitar signal chain. Specifically a Boss blues Driver which has an amp simulator in it. I currently am an all computer rig using Amplitube 5 and an Irig hd2 interface. Have heard it could be a problem using pedals with amp sims built in. I also am wondering, concerned, about using pedals that have external power sources that are seemingly a different voltage spec than a USB port would have. Any thoughts…I am confused 🙂

[sunjamr]

Greetings, O:

Many of us are doing the same thing you are, with no problems. Your computer won’t blow up doing what you describe. All of your input signals are passing through the iRig, which is an audio interface. Most of us use a Scarlett 2i2, but all audio interfaces serve the same purpose: You feed in your analog (or digital) devices, and the interface converts the analog signal to a digital signal of the correct voltage for your computer. It ensures that everything going into your computer has the correct signal type and voltage. It basically serves as a voltage regulator for your computer, among other things.

I do this: Guitar plugs into compressor pedal, which plugs into Boss Blues Driver, which plugs into Boss Digital Delay, which plugs into a reverb pedal, which plugs into my Scarlett 2i2, which plugs in the USB port of my computer. All modern pedals are powered by 9V DC, so you can use one power supply (like the 1-Spot) with multiple plugs to power your pedals.

BTW, Amazon has sold around 45,000 Scarlett 2i2s, and around 3500 iRig HD2s. They are the same price, but the Scarlett has 2 inputs (for guitar or mic), 2 outputs for studio monitors, and one output for headphones. It’s powered by the USB voltage supplied by your computer, same as the iRig. iRigs are popular with buskers, because they are tiny and light, easy to carry.

Sunjamr Steve

[MrO]

Thank you for the reply Steve. I’ve been looking all over for an explanation that I could wrap my head around. I have been looking at the scarlet 2i2 and will probably give it a try. I will also be upgrading my computer so knowing how stuff works together is important so I can spec it correctly.
Thanks again Steve 🙂

[San Luis Rey]

Hey Ron,
Don’t know for sure but I used a BD-2 in garage band with an apogee jam interface and no issues.

Mike

[MrO]

I remember now using “Band in a Box” back in 2002 along with a DigiTech GNX1 and a Line6 interface. Weird I didn’t remember that earlier. Getting older 🙂 I just went and looked, I still have that stuff! Wonder if it still works?
Thanks Mike.

[Jean-Michel G]

As long as you don’t put anything between the audio interface and the computer, you are fine.

[MrO]

I will forge ahead with new found confidence. Thank you 🙂

[Richard G]

This thread interested me from the start. As I usually record with an acoustic guitar, the finished sound quality is important to me.
Today I tried two routes into my Ableton Lite DAW:-

1) Guitar connected directly to a Focusrite 2i2 and then to my DAW.
2) Guitar connected to a series of pedals (compressor, reverb, bodyrez) and connected to a Focusrite 2i2 and then to my DAW

Interestingly MrO, I found the 1) Option the clearest and best as I added the effects I wanted using the Audio Effects in the DAW.

The 2) Option was OK but sounded cluttered and muddy in comparison to the 1) Option ie) direct connection.
This slightly muddy sound is not apparent when I play through my acoustic amp.

I’m not sure whether the same would apply to an electric guitar but it’s always worth the test in order to get the best results.

Richard

[MrO]

That is interesting. I will have to experiment with that when I get a 2i2, Di box, and a pedal or two in a few days.
I will let you know if I get similar results.
Thanks Richard,
Ron

[JoeD1]

I found I experienced the same results as you Richard with my electric guitars. The guitar recorded through my pedal chain into my Scarlett 2i2 plugged into my DAW (GarageBand) was muddier and difficult to clean up and get a decent tone. Plugging the guitar directly into the Scarllett 2i2 and using my DAW (GarageBand) and my plug-ins (Positive Grid Bias FX 2) was a much clearer sound and easier to tweak. I’m now experimenting with a multi-fx pedal (NuX MG300) into the Scarlett into the DAW.

Joe

The sight of a touch, or the scent of a sound,
Or the strength of an Oak with roots deep in the ground.
--Graeme Edge

[Jean-Michel G]

The more stuff you put in the signal chain, the more noise you add. This is particularly true if you use budget pedals. And it is particularly noticeable for acoustic instruments.

If you have to use effects, one multi-effects pedal is preferable over a chain of standalone pedals.

When I need to plug in my acoustic (i.e. on stage), I usually only use my Fishman Aura Spectrum DI to combat the piezo sound. In the case of very small gigs the Aura Spectrum goes straight into my amp which has built in reverb and compression. I larger settings I’ll go to the FoH. In the latter case I’ll use the compression provided by the Aura Spctrum and a TC Helicon reverb pedal in the Aura’s effects loop.

When recording acoustic I don’t use any effects pedals; the mics go straight into my Scarlett 18i8 and everything else is done in post in Logic.

[MrO]

That makes a lot of sense. I am familiar with the effects that poor quality components can have on a circuit but I must admit I never gave much thought to the noise factor.

Part of my goal in this exercise is to eventually be able to record a decent clean dry signal at the same time that I record the processed signal. This would allow me to re-amp new sounds and apply post techniques to recordings I’ve already done. I have had some success with this without using pedals but acceptable results will require it.

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and experience. Ron

[sunjamr]

I don’t use any pedals for recording my acoustics. If I want the optimum end result, I simultaneously record from a mic and direct input onto two different tracks. That was the reason that years ago I switched from a little iRig-like interface to a Scarlett 2i2: The Scarlett has two inputs.

Sunjamr Steve

[MrO]

I haven’t had an acoustic for around 20 years. When I did it was an ovation. Fun to play. Carried it on a submarine. Anyway from what I can tell, in research, this seems to be a popular method for recording acoustic especially if the mic is set out of phase from the DI. I have no experience with that, just what I’ve read. There might be some influence on sound quality with pedal chains related to phasing as well. My head hurts now 🙂 Its fun though. I discovered amplitube 5 has an easy way to simultaneously record and keep clean DI tracks which allows for later re-amping in Amplitube 5 or for other uses. Signal is a bit weak but it works.
Just waiting for my Scarlett 2i2 to get here. Thanks Steve.

[Jean-Michel G]

When you simultaneously record a DI signal and a microphone signal the mic signal will always be out of phase with respect to the direct signal. This is simply because the mic signal is always delayed; the farther away the mic, the longer the delay. Adding pedals in the signal chain also delays the signal somewhat, because of the time required in each pedal to process the signal.

When two signals are out of phase they combine destructively and the end result is weaker (or fuzzier) signal.

The question is whether it actually matters or not. If the phase difference is small, you probably won’t hear anything. Otherwise you’ll have to correct the phase problem in your DAW. Depending on which one you use this can be more or less tedious. In theory you can also physically delay the DI signal, but in my experience that’s a pain in the neck.

[Richard G]

Whenever I’ve recorded an acoustic guitar using two channels ie: a condenser mic plus direct connection to my Focusrite I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the result during the mix.
NB: It’s important however to carefully place the condenser mic first for best effect.

Richard

[MrO]

What I gather your saying is that by carefully positioning the mic you are in effect “adjusting” the phase, among other tonal aspects, of the mic in comparison to the DI. Maybe out of phase sounds correct or good, cuz to J-M’s point, our ears would be outa phase with each other much of the time.

[Richard G]

No MrO, the position and distance from the guitar is vital to achieving a good quality tone. 12 inches from the sound hole will give you a boomy sound, but aim the mic at the 12th fret and you get a completely different tone. So, positioning the mic is vital to the type of tone you want.
The different phase or delay in the signal between ‘mic connection’ and ‘direct connection’ is way beyond anything my ears can pick up.

So technically correct but in my experience practically indiscernible.

Richard

[Jean-Michel G]

I agree and that’s why I said that that the question is whether it actually matters.

When you place a mic in front of a speaker cabinet (or a guitar), it takes approximately 1 millisecond per foot (30 cm) for the sound signal to reach the mic.
One foot is usually the approximate distance between a mic and an acoustic guitar, so the “mic signal” is delayed by approximately 1 ms compared to the direct signal. That doesn’t sound like much.
But phase issues are frequency dependent. Any 1 kHz sine wave-like signal delayed by 1 ms with respect to a reference 1 kHz signal will be completely out of phase and incur total cancellation at that frequency. On the other hand, any 2 kHz signal will remain perfectly in phase. Since an acoustic guitar “signal” consists of many superposed frequencies, some will suffer from phase issues while others will not. This means that some harmonics will be filtered away.
Again, this may or may not not be noticeable. If you are happy with the end result, why bother?!

[MrO]

I admire the knowledge and playing playing abilities of both you and Richard. Also thank you both for the very knowledgeable and thoughtful replies. It has helped me a lot.
Ron

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