acoustic guitars

[Cliff S]

Dear Bryan,
I am now in my 82nd year, ihave been a subscriber for 18months now.
I have learnt so much from your courses, from a mere novice to finding that I
now at last i can feel confident in going forward.(God willing).
My frustration is with acoustic guitar models.
Even well known brands costing a few hundred pounds will have some
annoying fault,frets hard to press, and that annoying flat spot that appears.
I see you sliding form barchord to barcord with relative ease.
Could you please make a program that tells us what to look for when buying an acoustic
guitar.I mam not asking you to endorse any brand.I am now looking at spending many
hundreds of pounds to find that illusive instument.Please can you help.
Many thanks, I will be subscribing again next year. Cliff.

[JoLa]

Hi Cliff,
Nice to meet you, welcome to Active Melody Forum!

I totally understand your frustration and yes, Brian certainly makes playing LOOK easy! I believe it is unlikely for Brian to post a whole video about what to look for in acoustic guitars but there are plenty of videos on youtube on that subject. I would strongly encourage you to explore those.

Also, keep in mind that there is no such thing as perfect guitar right off the hook in any store, especially at a budget level. A good setup done by a professional can turn a budget (or any!) acoustic into a player’s dream just by making neck adjustments, intonation, adjusting action, polishing down the frets, etc etc. Not only you should take your guitar to a luthier or a guitar tech near you after the purchase but also do it regularly for maintenance. The climate, the seasonal changes of temperatures and humidity, the way you store the guitar affect the wood and its playability, so regular maintenance is absolutely necessary.

What kind of guitar do you have? Have you tried many different types before the purchase? It may take some time before you find the perfect fit for YOU.

🎸JoLa

[sunjamr]

Hi Cliff, welcome to the forum. I’m an old guy like you, but I’ve been an AM member for almost a decade now. I’ve played lots of different acoustic guitars, and I own 6 of them, plus a bunch of electrics. Generally speaking, the larger the acoustic guitar, the less I like to play it. Justin Johnson – one of the best acoustic blues guitarists in the world – says the same thing. My favorite and most-used guitar is called a “Taylor Baby”. It’s a kind of parlor guitar that’s even smaller than the famous Taylor “GS Mini”, which several of us AM members have.

Here’s something most people don’t know:

The shorter the string length, the less tension on the strings is needed to bring them into tune. So if you had a 6 meter long string, by the time you tightened it to the frequency of a standard guitar tuning, it would be so stiff you would not be able to press it down to fret it. It’s the basic physics of string tension. So with a small guitar like the Taylor Baby, making complex bar chords is easy peazy. It takes a lot less finger strength to hold down that bar finger. And it’s super easy to bend notes. So when it comes to playing some fingerstyle acoustic blues, my first choice is the Taylor Baby. It’s so easy on my hands, and the shorter scale length also makes it easy to reach those complex jazz chords. And here’s another little-known fact: The smaller the guitar body, the louder it is. It’s physics again. The smaller the body, the more string energy gets converted to sound waves.

Sunjamr Steve

[Cliff S]

Dear members, Thank you so much for your replies.A couple of years ago I thought I could pass
my old age on learning guitar.It has been an eye opener realising just how much there is to learn.it has become a great journey,despite my dissapointment with certain instruments.
Sunjamer, your comments are very welcome,I have been looking at the Taylor parlour guitars,
I have been very interested in the GS mini series.
I have found a local guitar supplier,he agrees with you,and has recomended the mini and the baby,he found me a Fender parlour guitar,second hand,to try.The size and sound are so much more suited to me, I cant wait to try the Taylor series.
I have found this journey so interesting,it has opened a new world for me.I am now listening
to the bluesmen with greater admiration, and the many hours they spend making it look so easy.
Thank you once more for your comments. Cliff.

[Jean-Michel G]

sunjamr wrote:

And here’s another little-known fact: The smaller the guitar body, the louder it is. It’s physics again. The smaller the body, the more string energy gets converted to sound waves.

Mmmmm… I’m afraid I have to disagree with that blanket statement.

The average power (energy rate) of a sinusoidal vibrating string is proportional to the square of the amplitude, the square of the frequency and the velocity of the wave. For a smaller guitar, the wave velocity is smaller since the string tension is lower. The other factors don’t change. So shorter strings actually radiate less power per unit time than longer strings.

That being said, smaller guitars can be “louder” than bigger guitars. But it is very important to differentiate between “volume” and “projection”. The former is loudness close by while the latter is loudness at a distance. What the player hears (volume) is not necessarily (in fact: is usually not) what the audience hears.

Volume and projection depend on the vibration modes of the instrument – a very complicated thing. Perceived volume also depends on psycho-acoustic phenomena, which make things even more complicated.
One of the reasons why a smaller guitar can be louder is that radiated energy is proportional to the ratio A/m, where A is the effective radiating surface and m is the corresponding mass. The problem is that mass tends to grow faster than the area because more material is required to guarantee the structural coherence of the instrument. So the ratio for larger guitars can be less favorable than for smaller guitars.

Conclusion: smaller guitars are not, in general, louder than bigger guitars, but they can be. All depends on how the guitar is built.

[GnLguy]

Jean-Michel G wrote:

sunjamr wrote:

And here’s another little-known fact: The smaller the guitar body, the louder it is. It’s physics again. The smaller the body, the more string energy gets converted to sound waves.

Mmmmm… I’m afraid I have to disagree with that blanket statement.
The average power (energy rate) of a sinusoidal vibrating string is proportional to the square of the amplitude, the square of the frequency and the velocity of the wave. For a smaller guitar, the wave velocity is smaller since the string tension is lower. The other factors don’t change. So shorter strings actually radiate less power per unit time than longer strings.
That being said, smaller guitars can be “louder” than bigger guitars. But it is very important to differentiate between “volume” and “projection”. The former is loudness close by while the latter is loudness at a distance. What the player hears (volume) is not necessarily (in fact: is usually not) what the audience hears.
Volume and projection depend on the vibration modes of the instrument – a very complicated thing. Perceived volume also depends on psycho-acoustic phenomena, which make things even more complicated.
One of the reasons why a smaller guitar can be louder is that radiated energy is proportional to the ratio A/m, where A is the effective radiating surface and m is the corresponding mass. The problem is that mass tends to grow faster than the area because more material is required to guarantee the structural coherence of the instrument. So the ratio for larger guitars can be less favorable than for smaller guitars.
Conclusion: smaller guitars are not, in general, louder than bigger guitars, but they can be. All depends on how the guitar is built.

And another important point that must be considered as well….

Loudness, projection & volume are important aspects but depth of tone is another – and in my way of thinking, of greater value.

I mentioned recently about having played a used Taylor; it was loud and typical of a Taylor, it projected well but the bass was so heavy and prevalent that it was muddy. That may well have been the reason reason that it was traded in.
Tone wood matters but it isn’t the end all. I’ve played guitars that were the same maker, model and tone woods – but they sounded vastly different.
Why? Maybe the tops had been sanded differently, maybe the braces were carved differently or placed differently – who knows?
My grandfather made fiddles – not violins, fiddles!! LOL They were somewhat crude as a sharp chisel, a drawing knife and his Case XX pocket knife were his main tools. He would carve the tops, be covered with wood shavings and when he got close to the desired thickness, he started tapping it in various places. He knew the tone that he was looking for. Those fiddles were very loud and he got great tone from them – because as a craftsman, he knew how to carve the tops and backs to the right thickness. He didn’t measure them per se except for the tone that he heard when he tapped it

With a guitar, it goes back to “Does it sound good to me?’ If it does, then I can either adjust it to play easier or I can take it to someone who can. I don’t judge a guitar necessarily on how loud it is, but is there a depth of its tone? Do I hear complex overtones bouncing around inside that wooden box as it sustains for what seems like forever.
That is what is more important to me

David Hamburger is a very talented guy as a player, instructor & writer and he has a very off beat sense of humor. In this video, he really puts things in perspective about gear, as you can see from the title

[Jean-Michel G]

With a guitar, it goes back to “Does it sound good to me?’ If it does, then I can either adjust it to play easier or I can take it to someone who can. I don’t judge a guitar necessarily on how loud it is, but is there a depth of its tone? Do I hear complex overtones bouncing around inside that wooden box as it sustains for what seems like forever.
That is what is more important to me

I tend to agree with that.
However, a guitar that sounds good to you (the player) doesn’t necessarily always sound as good to the listener, and it may very well be inaudible for the people sitting in the back row of an audience.
The opposite is also quite possible: an average-sounding instrument close by may offer a superb tone at a distance.

I was fortunate enough to play a Redgate classical guitar once. On stage it was completely overpowered by the big Jumbo Gibson of my band mate, but at a distance from stage that guitar had an amazing balanced definition that made it easily heard, while the Gibson was only producing a bassy mud.
Go figure.

So, you have to know what you are going to use your instrument for, and how you are going to use it. This is where the skills of a good luthier become so important. She will be able to translate your expectations in an actual instrument.

[avanapa]

I’m thinking of buying a Martin 00015M. I was wondering if any members own one and would give an insight to the pros and cons they have found. I know there are many youtube reviews on guitars in general but most often they are in someway sponsored or at least have some ulterior motive for doing the review. On the face of it, the Martin would suit perfectly the blues/folk style that I enjoy playing.
Having been a member on here for some 11 years Brian has been responsible for me reaching the level of playing I have attained but I feel I have never owned a guitar that had me truly comfortable with the sound. I suppose I could go to a guitar shop and try one out but my nearest one is far away and often they only have one demo and as we all know, even guitars of the same make can vary from one to another. So i’m looking to anyone on the forum who actually owns one to just give an honest and fair assessment of their experience with it.

[Richard G]

Hi Mr A,
I don’t own a 00015M but I have played one or two in the retailers. In my opinion being solid mahogany top/sides the sound is unique to parlour guitars with that type of wood, being slightly muted and boxy but maybe suited to vintage acoustic blues. I do play a Martin with Spruce/Rosewood timber so I’m probably a tad biased.

I would however suggest that if you’re considering paying $2,300 on a guitar, ‘I would definitely play it before buying’ this is so important with solid wood acoustics, as you said no two guitars sound the same. Apart from the mahogany tone, if this guitar is going to be a keeper, you need to feel the guitar and be confident it’s the right one for you. I know you said your local retailer was some distance away but I would stress ‘bite the bullet’ and make a trip out of it.

If you buy the right Martin for you, you won’t regret it.

Richard

[GnLguy]

Cliff & Mr A

Allow me to also say, don’t be afraid to consider a used guitar. I’m not certain where either of you live but here in the States, there are a lot of used guitars for sale and there are good deals to be had

Facebook Marketplace, Craigslist and other publications are good sources for what is available and you can also place ads saying that you are in search of the guitar of your dreams

Good luck in your search and let us know what you bring home someday

Keith
aka GnLguy

[Jean-Michel G]

I don’t own a 00015M but I have played one or two in the retailers. In my opinion being solid mahogany top/sides the sound is unique to parlour guitars with that type of wood, being slightly muted and boxy but maybe suited to vintage acoustic blues. I do play a Martin with Spruce/Rosewood timber so I’m probably a tad biased.

Same here. I don’t own any, but I have played a couple of them.
I agree with Richard. It produces a typical all-mahogany sound, i.e. big in the mid-range. In my opinion it lacks some bass and treble (to my taste, anyway), but if you like that sound, by all means go for it. It’s a great Martin (no, not all Martin guitars are great!), and it’s relatively affordable.

I would definitely play it before buying’ this is so important with solid wood acoustics, as you said no two guitars sound the same. Apart from the mahogany tone, if this guitar is going to be a keeper, you need to feel the guitar and be confident it’s the right one for you.

I couldn’t agree more!

Allow me to also say, don’t be afraid to consider a used guitar.

Not a bad advice either. If you are serious about guitars, it may take time before you know exactly what sound you’re after and the only way to really know is to play many different instruments. This can be a tad expensive if you buy a new instrument each time.

[avanapa]

thanks for your thoughts guys. I think going used might be good advice. Theres no doubt that guitars improve with age, particularly all solids. I have seen some on E bay and similar sites but probably would feel safer searching out actual guitar stores.

[Author]

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