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Question about Major Scale and Pentatonic Scale

Home › Forums › Music Theory › Question about Major Scale and Pentatonic Scale

  • This topic has 10 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 3 months ago by Sumanto Banerjee.
Viewing 5 reply threads
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    • July 4, 2021 at 7:17 am #261065
      Sumanto Banerjee
      Participant

        I was trying to learn some Theory along with the application, and did some reading on the Net. Because of my limited understanding, my question may appear a bit silly to the good and experienced players.

        First, My current capability…
        I am 49, playing since last 9 months. I am self (internet) taught, I am quite serious about guitar and I am happy with my progress. I can play 3 shapes of Pentatonic and 3 shapes of Major scale, at around 180 bpm quite fluently. I can noodle reasonably OK, in those spaces, but I have to search for chord tones while trying to improvise.

        What I was trying…
        To memorize the 5 Pentatonic shapes and relate to the Major Scale.

        What I want…
        To play melodically all over the fretboard.

        My question…
        I was wondering… Why learn Pentatonic scale at all ?? It is a limiting scale.
        I need to learn the Major scale, shift notes to learn Modes, and that covers the minor scale and that covers the pentatonic scale and sometimes I need to include some chromatic notes for flavour.

        Am I horribly going wrong somewhere in my understanding of scales and getting the big picture ?? Can someone guide me please 🙏🙏

        Sumanto

        Storming Heaven's Gate

      • July 4, 2021 at 7:47 am #261066
        Martin W
        Participant

          Hi sumanto, I would suggest stick with those pentatonic shapes so much music within them , this is how I look at the five boxes , every box has two pentatonic scales within it one major and also the relative minor as an example cmajor pentatonic box 1 is the same as Aminor pentatonic box 1 . C is the first note of the major scale in the key of C ,A is the sixth the relative minor so share the same notes but in a different order if you look at those pentatonic shapes in any key that rule applies , I find theory is better gleaned in little steps , the above concept helped my understanding of the five pentatonic boxes a lot . Also I would suggest learning the intervals of the major scale this will also unlock many things . Hope this helps .

          Martin

          • July 4, 2021 at 7:51 am #261068
            Sumanto Banerjee
            Participant

              Thanks Martin, undertood your point.

              Storming Heaven's Gate

          • July 4, 2021 at 2:02 pm #261113
            charjo
            Moderator

              Sumanto,
              Martin makes excellent points.
              An approach I like is to relate each major pentatonic shape to it’s associated CAGED chord shape. Learn what intervals you are playing in each of those shapes, ie, R, 2,3,4,6,R. Now learn the arpeggio of the major chord in that CAGED shape and, again, try to see the intervals. Now fill in the missing major major 7 and you have the major scale in each shape. I think seeing the scales around the chord shape (arpeggio) is the key to the fret board. Now try and fill in the minor pentatonic and minor scale around those intervals you have learned. I think Brian has a lesson on relating the minor pentatonic boxes to CAGED minor chord shapes. If not, you can find that on YouTube. If you can see intervals you can create the myxolydian, dorian mode etc within those CAGED or pentatonic shapes, ie. see all the colour and chromatic tones. One caution, though. Sometimes it is better to master all this in one or two boxes and start to make music with it. Trying to do everything at once can be overwhelming.
              John

              • July 4, 2021 at 2:43 pm #261120
                Sumanto Banerjee
                Participant

                  Thanks John for answering… but I felt you have reinforced my doubt. If Pentatonic consists of
                  1-b3-4-5-b7… how can I play any Major Arpeggio (say Triad or 7th) staying within the Pentatonic?? Ill have to add the extra chord notes, at least the 3rd and sometimes the 7th.. now doesnt that automatically make it playing the Major Scale, or some Mode of it?? So, if I initially play the Major scale only, I just need to find or target the Chordal Notes, however if I play the Pentatonic, I always need to add some chordal note everytime there is a chord change. Thats why the initial question came to my mind.
                  (I may be absolutely wrong, please excuse me if I am talking rubbish 🙏🙏)

                  Storming Heaven's Gate

              • July 5, 2021 at 10:59 am #261209
                charjo
                Moderator

                  Hi Sumanto,
                  I was referring to the major pentatonic over major chords. You can do the same with minor pentatonic over minor chords. Remember major pentatonic and minor pentatonic overlap in any one CAGED position and all those colour tones are nearby.
                  John

                  • July 5, 2021 at 12:14 pm #261217
                    Sumanto Banerjee
                    Participant

                      Yeah, got the point. 🙏

                      Storming Heaven's Gate

                  • July 6, 2021 at 10:18 pm #261360
                    Duffy P
                    Participant

                      What happens if you stop thinking of them as scales, and think instead in terms of a collection of notes.

                      The first point is that everything you play comes from the chromatic scale. But endlessly practicing chromatic scales isn’t going to help that much with making music.

                      As the major scale is a subset of the chromatic, so too the major pentatonic is a subset of both of those. But there are lots of melodies that are entirely made from notes in the pentatonic scales. Learning that sound is useful, just as learning the sound of the arpeggios is useful, learning the triads, learning other note collections (diminished, whole tone, harmonic minor, etc…)

                      Hope this helps.

                      • July 7, 2021 at 2:47 am #261374
                        Sumanto Banerjee
                        Participant

                          True that. Thanks for your thoughts Duffy

                          Storming Heaven's Gate

                      • July 9, 2021 at 8:43 pm #261619
                        Jonathan g
                        Participant

                          Hey, I’m new here but have been on a bit of a music theory bender myself over the past year.

                          RE: Pentatonic scales, this was very useful to me and may help you out. The first pattern of minor pentatonic (lets say A minor pentatonic), can be used to solo/improvise over both Am and C major since they contain the same notes. Therefore, if you know the root of the scale you want to solo over, you can use the 1st minor pentatonic pattern to solo over any scale, major or minor. Note that if you put your 1st finger on the root of the minor pentatonic (on the 6th string) your 4th finger will land on the parallel major root note (3 frets up). You can use this to focus your soloing around the root. Hope that helps.

                          • July 10, 2021 at 3:33 am #261638
                            Sumanto Banerjee
                            Participant

                              Got what you are explaining Jonathon; thanks for the reply. However, there is something more of it in my mind, I am trying to express that in the coming monthly challenge; see you there.

                              Storming Heaven's Gate

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