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Anyone else confused with 4 5 1 numbers.

Home › Forums › Music Theory › Anyone else confused with 4 5 1 numbers.

  • This topic has 6 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 11 months ago by Billy.
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    • October 14, 2020 at 2:25 am #215078
      Raymond M
      Participant

        I get lost as soon as someone talks about them. I get so confused with it all and I feel I’m put off by it. I imagine it’s probably pretty simple when it clicks. It’s just not making sense to me

      • October 14, 2020 at 3:18 am #215082
        Billy
        Participant

          7 notes, numbered 1 to 7, so lets use the G major (or the key of G) is a major scale based on G, with the notes G, A, B, C, D, E, and F#.
          G=1st chord C=4th chord and D=5th chord.

          ..Billy..

        • October 14, 2020 at 6:33 am #215092
          Raymond M
          Participant

            Sorry when I said 4 5 1 I really meant any numbers. How do we know which ones to use and when etc.

            • October 14, 2020 at 12:00 pm #215106
              Michael L
              Participant

                Hi Raymond,

                This is all based on the major scale and the chords built from each degree of the major scale. The chord numbers are just a short-hand way to identify the chord progression in a song. When to use which is dictated by how the song is written. There are common patterns, but nothing in stone. Trust your ear. The key the song is written in becomes important to identify the specific chords.

                For example, based on the major scale in the key of C: C D E F G A B
                A song in the key of C with a 1 4 5 progression looks like:
                1, 4, 5
                C, F, G
                A song in the key of C with a 6 2 5 1 progression looks like:
                6, 2, 5, 1
                Am, Dm, G, C

                There are many common progressions seen repeatedly in a lot of music. For instance, 6,2,5,1 – sometimes written as vi-ii-V-I (capitals being major chords, lower case being minor).
                Or this one: 1,5,6,4 (See this list: 1-5-6-4 songs)

                Hope this helps. A fun exercise is to choose three numbers randomly out of 1-7, then play the corresponding chords on your guitar to see what that chord progression sounds like. Then, try a different set of numbers/chords. Start with the key of C since that has no sharps or flats. The chords are:
                1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
                C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bm

                You’ll find some combinations sound good to you, and some may not. There are tendencies, such as a 5 chord tends to lead the ear toward the 1 chord. But, experiment and see what you like. You’ll get used to this numbering soon enough.

                Best,
                Michael

            • October 14, 2020 at 10:41 am #215104
              Sal
              Participant

                Raymond,the blues usually are played in a 1-4-5 progression!!..Sal

              • October 14, 2020 at 3:39 pm #215118
                Duffy P
                Participant

                  Michael has it right except that it is not just for major scales. The first thing is to find the key, whether major or minor. From there, you have seven scale notes. And you do what Michael say if the song is in major.

                  If it’s in minor, you do the same thing with the scale degrees, but the chords that would be build off of it would be different. Thus a 1 IV V poogression in A major would be A D E. In a minor, the same chord progression would be A minor, D minor, and E minor or major, depending on the minor scale you use.

                  What stays constant is that the numbers refer to the step in the scale. Thus a V chord will always have a root on the fifth note of the scale of the key you are in.

                  Number systems are used all the time in jazz, are a staple of Nashville studio work, and date back as far as the Baroque period and figured bass.

                • October 14, 2020 at 4:16 pm #215126
                  Billy
                  Participant

                    Im sure there is a thread where I said we overly complicate guitar…

                    ..Billy..

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