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- This topic has 10 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 2 months ago by Jean-Michel G.
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January 22, 2023 at 10:44 am #332710
Love your lessons Brian!
I know you have said that you were basically giving us a structure foundation that we could embellish and improvise around, which is great. One thing that would be helpful for me would be if you could show us the scale patterns to use with the lessons. Some people might already be able to do that intuitively, but intermediate members like myself could use a little help being creative.
Thanks! -
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January 22, 2023 at 12:22 pm #332717
Slightly OT: I’ve tried for a year or so to memorize the boxes of the minor pentatonic scale. Gee whiz, do I play Box 1 or Box 4 or what?? I had an epiphany when a book I ordered simplified the whole approach and basically said, “know where the roots are for the key you are playing in, and the intervals between the pentatonic scale notes will always be the same”. Well, in practice it wasn’t that easy. What helped me was to print out some blank fretboard sheets, and for the keys of A, E, and D, I marked where all the root notes were on all the strings. Then, based on the string and the note, I filled in the pentatonic scale notes around each root note. I still don’t know Box 1 from Box 2, but I know that if I find A on the 7th fret of the 4th (D) string, I know where the pentatonic scale notes are. Then I did the same thing for the major pentatonic scale as well.
If this had nothing to do with you original question, well… oops. But keep the idea open in your mind.
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January 22, 2023 at 1:01 pm #332718
I look at the positions differently. For me, if I’m play chords in different positions so as to get different voicings, THAT is one reason I might use, let’s say, forth pattern because that is the location of the chord I just played.
As far as memorize all root locations, I just remember the two-up, two-over rule to find the root in any location. Since I know when ever I find my home root, the 4 is one string up and the 5 two frets over ( and the reverse ) .
If you memorize just the notes on string 5 and 6, you can easily find every note with the two up, two over rule ,( two up, THREE over when using or crossing string 2. )
For example, I know my A is on the 5 fret, string 6. Then I know that another A is 7 fret 4th string, which leads me to 10 fret, 5th string.
An other trick you can use if you find yourself lost on the fret board forgetting what pattern you are using, use this guide. Since we all know at least pattern 1 (I.e. 1-4, 1-3, 1-3, 1-3 etc). Once you find your root ANYWHERE on the fret board using the above method, just go 1-4,1–3,1-3, etc. from that point ( remember the B strung rule ).
Example: A on 5 fret, string. Of course pattern 1.Now, A on 4th string 7th fret, again use same pattern from that point. A on 12th fret, string 5. Use pattern one from that point ( which happens to be pattern 4j
If lost, find a root, and use pattern one from there. ALL WILL BE MINOR PENTATONIC. The same approach works for the major pentatonic. Find your root and use pattern TWO from that point.
It may not be the coolest sound but it will be correct. If you use this method, in time you ear will guide you to your favorite riffs you’ve played in other positions. -
January 22, 2023 at 2:51 pm #332720
I just remember the two-up, two-over rule to find the root
Dang. I completely forgot about that. That simplifies things for me, at least.
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January 22, 2023 at 9:20 pm #332730
Brian usually does tell you what scale applies to what lesson, but he may not make a big deal of it. Perhaps that’s why you haven’t noticed. But in the end, you pretty much have to do this: Pick a fret to be your minor pentatonic equator (worry about the major pent later). The pentatonic equator is the starting fret for 1st position minor pent, and is called that because all notes on that fret are part of that 1st position scale, and they line up in a straight line. Try the 5th fret for a starter, as it’s easy to play the 1st position pent notes in that area. Sit down and memorize all the other minor pent positions relative to it, up and down the neck. That should take you no longer than a week. Now set your pentatonic equator on some other fret (say, the 7th fret) and play all 5 positions relative to it. That should take you 1 or 2 days at most. Now you have the geography of those 5 positions burned into your brain, and it doesn’t matter what fret you choose for the pentatonic equator. Easy peazy.
Sunjamr Steve
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February 9, 2023 at 7:39 pm #334698
Thanks Sunjamr!
I have been doing that. Was never disciplined enough to tackle it before (too boring?) I’m seeing progress when I start to know the fretboard better.
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January 23, 2023 at 3:53 pm #332751
Hi Paul, Brian’s lesson EP374 covers the major scale in the 5 “CAGED” positions. This relates the major scale to the chord shapes, so if you have the chord you can easily play the scale around it. Pentatonic scales are a subset of the major scale, so you’ll get that too. This really gets at the heart of learning the fretboard. Being able to “see” the chord, scale (major/pent), triads, etc. in any position opens up new worlds of creativity and playing. It comes with practice and repetition… no real shortcuts.
As a learning aid, I highly recommend learning the octave pattern. It’s not too hard and is really just extending the “two frets up, two frets over” process. With the full octave pattern you develop a good sense of any given note over the full fretboard. If you’re on a C note, for example, you’ll know the next C note moving left or right on the fretboard. From that foundation, you will see how the CAGED chords, scales, triads, etc. fit over the root notes. Eventually, no matter what position your at, you see the root notes and immediately know the chord shape, scale patterns, etc. No need to calculate it all starting on the 6th or 5th strings. It’s like: “Here’s a root note. Going to the right on the fretboard, there’s my next root note. Ah, those are the hooks for the E chord shape. So, my major scale is this shape, my minor pent is that shape, and my major pent is this other shape”. It does take a little while, but essentially this is what all of Brian’s lesson are pointing to. Again, the octave pattern was key in nailing this down for me. Best of luck on your learning journey!
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February 9, 2023 at 7:44 pm #334699
Thanks Michael!
Of course you are right. I knew that but never really took the time to become familiar with the scale patterns. I thought I knew them, but it turns out I just did not know them well enough. It’s starting to come together now.
I thought scale practice was boring, but it’s actually enjoyable once you start having those “light bulb moments.”
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February 13, 2023 at 12:07 am #334831
Michael, could you expand a bit more on the Octave pattern, and hoe it it’s with chords, and the Major and Pentatonic scales !
Thanks, Andrew A -
February 13, 2023 at 12:08 am #334832
It should read, “and how it fits with chords” thanks.
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February 13, 2023 at 3:44 am #334836
If you search the forums for “octave pattern” you’ll find quite a bit of posts discussin g the topic in one way or another. Some posts include diagrams.
The idea is that all the occurrences of any given starting note always follow the same pattern on the fretboard.
What you do with that information depends on what you want to do.
One possibility os to view all these occurrences as the roots of a chord; you then have the backbone of CAGED.
Another possibility is to view them as the tonic of a scale – for example, the major pentatonic scale, or the Dorian scale. That gives you a visual clue as to how that particular scale is organized in each specific region of the fretboard.
There are in fact many possibilities…
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