Home › Forums › Music Theory › Scale patterns Brian teaches are not the traditional ones I learned
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November 8, 2016 at 1:38 pm #54971
I have just started going through the blues course, and so far have only practiced 2 licks from Scale pattern 1. Good stuff here! I decided to jump ahead and look at all the scale patterns that Brian teaches, and I notice 2 things in particular. The first is that Brian’s patterns are not the patterns that you see in guitar books or internet searches. I mean, the notes are the same, just played on different parts of the neck, Brian slides into the previous “box” to complete the pattern as he climbs down the scale beyond the third string.
The other thing I noticed is that Brian doesn’t use his pinky in any of the patterns (and I have been practicing the conventional patterns for a few years with my terribly uncooperative pinky). I don’t have a problem with any of these alternative scale patterns, just wondering why he departs from the traditional patterns and fingering that most of us have learned.
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November 8, 2016 at 1:46 pm #54972
I have just started going through the blues course, and so far have only practiced 2 licks from Scale pattern 1. Good stuff here! I decided to jump ahead and look at all the scale patterns that Brian teaches, and I notice 2 things in particular. The first is that Brian’s patterns are not the patterns that you see in guitar books or internet searches. I mean, the notes are the same, just played on different parts of the neck, Brian slides into the previous “box” to complete the pattern as he climbs down the scale beyond the third string.
The other thing I noticed is that Brian doesn’t use his pinky in any of the patterns (and I have been practicing the conventional patterns for a few years with my terribly uncooperative pinky). I don’t have a problem with any of these alternative scale patterns, just wondering why he departs from the traditional patterns and fingering that most of us have learned.
I agree about his lack of pinky use, I for some reason picked up the ” A finger a fret” from who knows where, but I want to keep it that way as I want to develop my own style not copy Brian’s, not that that is a slant on Brian’s style of playing…as for the Patterns. I know nothing of others and at this stage everything looks and sounds kosher to me..
..Billy..
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November 8, 2016 at 1:52 pm #54973
See attached, the patterns you see are the traditional ones. The notes are all the same, it’s just that Brian’s method spans two boxes per pattern (except pattern 2, but he stops on the third string). The traditional patterns only employ one box per pattern and use all the strings. Brian’s may be the better way, but he doesn’t mention anything about his departure from the traditional, and just wondering why. I think it has to do with ease of playing without the pinky.
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November 8, 2016 at 2:19 pm #54976
@Tim A, from what I remember Brian’s box 1 includes a little 4 note box on strings 5 & 6 that are part of the traditional box 5. I think Brian teaches it that way as it is more practical for slides, hammer ons and licks. If you include the five note extension of box 2 on strings 1 , 2 and 3, you actually have one of the two extended blues scales from which so many licks come from. Don’t fuss about the fingering, you can use either the pinky or 3rd finger. Later you may find yourself using the 3rd finger more and more to execute bends and vibrato.
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November 8, 2016 at 2:22 pm #54977
Hi Tim,
I’m sorry but I don’t see any relevant difference.
If you allow me in any pattern you’ll find particular box to use. I mean you usually don’t play all notes of a pattern. Stick with Brian and you’ll see it
Cheers
Ale -
November 8, 2016 at 4:53 pm #54986
In the lessons Brian often mentions 1st position, 2nd position, etc in the pentatonic scale, and the notes he demonstrates are the same as the “traditional” pentatonic box positions. But in the end, you have to know how to connect those boxes on the fly, so technically, the boxes are just a learning aid to help us learn where each note on the entire pentatonic scales lies. After you start using positions 1 – 5, you realize that some notes in each of the boxes are more useful than others. For example, in position 2 most people only use the top (G, B, E) three strings (some teachers call the notes on those 3 strings the “extended 1st position”). In position 4, people usually use all but the low E, then you can slide down 2 frets and use the A and D strings from position 3.
As for the pinky, I use it all the time. I bend notes with it, do slides with it, hammer on with it. It’s just another finger. All classical and jazz guitarists use it. Most modern blues guitarists use it. Better to start using it as much as possible. We’ve only got 4 fingers to fret with, so why would anyone want to have 25% of their fingers rendered useless? And that goes for the right hand as well, if you are into finger picking.
Sunjamr Steve
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November 8, 2016 at 6:00 pm #54987
@tim A
welcome to the site….
I believe the scale pattern doubt has been addressed…but just to chime in….what defines the scales is the interval steps….the 5 note pentatonic scale can be played anywhere on the fretboard, including starting on other strings as long as you follow the interval steps….the pictures you posted and the positions are helpful ways to learn and one can begin and cut off anywhere…..there is nothing unusual about the descriptions Brian uses, I’ve seen all of the above over the years.
I was fortunate to have teachers in my youth that required the pinky…..I always recommend using it, but it’s a personal thing….
RobertoRoberto
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November 8, 2016 at 6:46 pm #54989
Hi and welcome !
All I have to offer is the use of the fingers.. It really all comes down to what is comfortable for you. How you get there, doesn’t really matter, just getting there is the objective..
I had to do the same, I had to re adjust my playing in a bunch of areas due to limitations on my hand. Due to an accident, I lost the use of two knuckles. So, stuff like the traditional 1st position F chord is a challenge for me.
Don't practice till you get it right, practice till you can't get it wrong.
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November 8, 2016 at 6:52 pm #54990
He calls them patterns, instead of positions or boxes, which is what you usually see in what you are calling the “traditional” approaches.
The position approach typically has the player view a particular fret as the anchor or home base for the index finger. This gives an excellent vertical understanding of the fretboard. Its not so good for connecting horizontal sections of the fretboard. It also has the advantage of being complete, at least within one position. But it has the disadvantage of not being particularly natural for the wrist, especially in the upper registers.
Brian’s approach, in my view, is less complete but more practical. Patterns are associated with licks. And these translate into moves that a player is more likely to actually use. Some notes in some positions don’t come into the patterns Brian uses, and that’s because, in his experience there are easier and better ways to play the same notes.
I learned the positions as a teenager. I think both ways can be useful.
As for the fingers. The different finger usages will lend themselves to different techniques and different sounds. Clapton never uses his pinky. Most jazz guys use the pinky, and maybe overuse it to stretch up the fretboard. Django Reinhardt managed pretty well with just two fingers, and it’s fun to try to play with that limitation.
There are three approaches. Do what works for you, which is kind of a cop out since it means stay comfortable when getting better means stretching to where you are not comfortable. Do the correct method, which begs the question, but it’s what the jazz and classical guys might say. Or learn them all, which is ideal but very daunting.
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November 9, 2016 at 5:03 am #54998
Hi Tim A
I’m pretty certain that somewhere in the Blues Course Brian mentions that he does not demonstrate all of the patterns, particularly on the lower strings, and he tends to concentrate on the others, linking the notes up and down the fret board in a practical manner. (I think he says that, anyway, forgive me if I’m wrong). Another teacher called Griff Hamlin says he rarely uses the lower notes (apart from rhythms such as shuffles) and could probably have a four string guitar, but, he teaches the whole pattern for completeness. If you go through Brian’s weekly lessons you will find that he does use the lower strings (try the week before last) and he points this out when he does it.
What I like about Brian’s approach is that the lessons are not there to copy but to use as part of what we play and he encourages us to go on and develop our own licks and styles. I try to learn the lessons note for note just to prove to myself that I can. He often points out that he finds certain fingering easier for him and that we might find other methods easier for us. SO, if the full patterns suits you and different fingering suits you then pick the bits that help from the lessons and add your own. I use my little finger (English description) and just adapt the style to the lessons.
Enjoy,
Andrew
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January 26, 2017 at 8:36 pm #60723
Tim A
I just started the blues course as well I have the same confusion as you especially when Brian goes into the fourth position. It is different than the traditional box that I was practicing and it kind of threw me off because I had not seen it done this way. As I like Brian’s teaching method I am just going to try it his way as it may be easier when I get to practicing it more. As far as the pinky goes I use it all the time and probably will continue. Also I will continue to learn the full box even though it may not be used so much I still want to know it. Just my two cents worth. So far I have found Brian’s teaching method to be the best out there and have learned more in two weeks than I have from other courses. Keep the questions coming as that is the only way of helping each other to fix the confusion of other teaching methods.
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January 26, 2017 at 10:19 pm #60731
Hello all, May I suggest the CAGED system.. believe it is here in the site.. go to my account and a drop down appears click on my courses.. or think you can also type caged in the lessons drop down search menu.. When you play the and acknowledge what the theory is using CAGED patterns/positions/box patterns whatever you want to term it.. You should also acknowledge and practice the octaves .. learning to play the octaves off the key note /root note will help you learn/see those box scales/positions/patterns up the fret board..This is basic theory and a must to develope the best practicing experience possible no matter what style /genre you play. You’ll have more fun learning fast whatever you are practicing. Brian also recommends/reminds us on many his lessons to learn the notes on the fret board, learn the diotonic scale ,,play it up the neck on each string and make a chart or buy a chart.. or find a chart online and say the notes while playing one at a time on each string up the neck to the twelth fret it starts over diotonic scale starting on the low open E string E F G A B C D E low open A string A B C D E F G A try learning Diotonic chord progressions major minor learn appegios triads etc, Brian teaches it all
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January 26, 2017 at 11:35 pm #60732
Keep looking for the like button
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