Home › Forums › Blues Guitar Discussions › Don Deering – Earlier You Said………..
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February 24, 2019 at 6:05 pm #126177
Hey Don and all of our AM family
In a recent reply to Billy, Don mentioned – Hey Billy, thanks for your comment, I hope it was better than a night’s practice. Listening can be just as much fun and just as educational, and it can be an inspiration to want to play.
I want to say that your response was spot on and speaks volumes because it so important to listen – to listen critically – to music of all eras.
Case in point: As I type this, I’m listening to Heather Newman, a relative newcomer into the blues. She is only about 22 and from the Kansas City area. I’m hearling Etta James and Big Mamma Thorton and maybe even some Sister Rosetta Tharpe in her vocals, I’m hearing elements from BB, Albert and Muddy throughout her band’s performance. Yet at the end of the day – Heather and her band are becoming their own personality based on the sum of the many parts.
In our playing, how do we know where want to go if we only know the content of a lesson or the releases of just our generation (SRV, Clapton, Hendrix, etc)? All 3 of the one that I just mentioned got a lot of their direction from Albert King, Freddie King and BB – where did the 3 Kings get their influence? How did they adapt their influences and make it their own.
My point in this post is to encourage everyone to listen listen listen to every source that you have. Don’s latest post introduced me to Sammy Lawhorn so I’m on a mission to dig further into his music. I’ve just learned of Kirk Fletcher this weekend, he’s another that I’ll be examining his playing closely
A second point to consider is that I don’t think its healthy to want to be clone of another player but to take what you hear and make it your own. A name that isn’t associated with the blues so much but he is one of the top guitarists of all time is Phil Keaggy. Phil started out in a power rock trio – Glass Harp – in the late 1960s. His conversion to Christianity put him on a different path but his music continued to progressed to the point now that Phil isn’t bound by any style. His rock playing is very blues based but he is totally amazing on acoustic. I’m posting a couple of his instrumental albums below as well as Heather Newman’s first release. Both releases by Phil are amazing electric performances
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February 24, 2019 at 6:31 pm #126181
Well now if my playing could be a good clone of Brian’s playing I will settle for that!! Buddy Guy would do as a good second choice or perhaps BB!! Surely if you are able to pick up the nuances of some one as good as Brian then you will be on your way to playing like many of the emulations he is able to make that’s not to say we will have the genius to write as he does but the agility Is a little separate from the score. I cant say wanting to play along the lines of one particular player is such a bad plan to target you have to get there first and whose to say if you succeed you stop there and wont take up another’s style?
Heather Sounds great and a nice band too. I did not know of her ..
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February 24, 2019 at 6:55 pm #126183
Well now if my playing could be a good clone of Brian’s playing I will settle for that!! Buddy Guy would do as a good second choice or perhaps BB!! Surely if you are able to pick up the nuances of some one as good as Brian then you will be on your way to playing like many of the emulations he is able to make that’s not to say we will have the genius to write as he does but the agility Is a little separate from the score. I cant say wanting to play along the lines of one particular player is such a bad plan to target you have to get there first and whose to say if you succeed you stop there and wont take up another’s style?
Heather Sounds great and a nice band too. I did not know of her ..
JohnStratPlaying along the lines of someone is one thing but so many times, people want to be a clone and that is my point. Make it your own, don’t be satisfied being a cover band. This is readily seen with people emulating Chet Atkins, SRV, Clapton etc – its OK for a short term goal but let it be a stepping stone
If you listen to some of the remakes that Stevie or Gary Moore did, they played almost the exact lines of the original recordings but it was very much their own and they could take to other places.
Heather Newman is really good and another young lady from the Kansas City area – Danielle Nicole – is really good too. Kenny Wayne Shepherd and Sonny Landreth played on her latest release.
I’m listening to Phil Keaggy’s release Jammed!! and I think that he and Jeff Beck could make an interesting album togeher
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February 24, 2019 at 8:34 pm #126194
I find it quite interesting that lots of the best new blues guitarists and singers are women. Yet there are so few women involved in the AM forum. I guess they all just practice in private, then jump up on stage when they are ready.
Sunjamr Steve
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February 24, 2019 at 8:58 pm #126198
I am a big believer in listening to music to inspire your playing. I hurt my back back in early November. No big deal, but it cut down some on my playing time. Aggravated it in early December. Pain was too bad to allow playing. About a month and half later I was healed enough to play, but had no motivation. Started up at the gym, listening to the likes of Duke Robillard, Hollywood Fats, and Ronnie Earl (all good for aerobics). Got inspired to learn some new licks, and have started playing again.
Bob
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February 24, 2019 at 9:06 pm #126200
Hey Keith, don’t give me too much credit, I need to take some of my own advice. Too many times I tell myself I’m going to listen to an album, listen to a radio broadcast, listen to something, after a few minutes I’m jumping up trying to copy something I heard—that’s not so bad, what’s worse is when I try, sort of get something new figured out and wander back into my old routine, maybe with a little something new. It is how I work—listen, play, listen, play, listen, play—but sometimes when it happens, it makes me wonder if I’m trying to listen to the wrong thing.
I wrote a little reply and I noticed I was rambling, so I deleted it, going to check back in tomorrow.
Don D.
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February 25, 2019 at 5:35 am #126225
We can’t help but be influenced by those and more you mentioned Keith, Just how many original licks are out there, how many of those licks or phrases used?, I agree 100% with both you and Don on the advice given, I certainly don’t want my guitar playing to sound like someone else but it can be difficult when there are so many recognisable licks and phrases associated to certain guitarists
..Billy..
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February 25, 2019 at 6:50 am #126228
Billy, meant to mention this in my comment. I don’t think you or I (or many people who don’t have the inborn talent to get themselves in trouble this way) need to worry about sounding too much like anyone, not at this point anyway. I inevitably sound like myself, no matter how much I try to copy something (this may not be true for you, hard for me to say, I hear so little of 1: Your playing and 2: What you listen to).
Listening is definitely one of my main immediate “triggers” for wanting to play. I’ll hear something and wonder if I can get my hands around it. Too often I’ll find something close, or something different that I like anyway and following that I drift back into my “old usual” (that’s why I appreciate what new players come up with; at that point they can spend hours bouncing around between 2 or 3 notes and there’s fire in them because they’re fresh). Anyways…
Although I like some contemporary players, my real love is for the sound of 1940s – 1960s blues (which some people played to the ends of their lives without changing too much, Otis Rush was one of them), so that’s what I listen to and what I hope will come out, but my youthful listening to blues rock and other malodious racket and, later on, swing and jazz, all make some kind of an impression, which I accept without too much anxiety.
Don D.
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February 25, 2019 at 6:26 am #126226
I don’t think I’ve found a universal method for learning guitar, but I’ve found the only one that works for me. It includes Brian’s lessons, but my reason for wanting to play goes back to wanting to make sounds that cause an emotional reaction (mostly in myself, my main audience) by making sounds similar to the ones that move me. I don’t know what it would be like to have to deal with so much talent I could easily imitate anyone, not anyone I like, so that isn’t a question. Sometimes I pick a song to learn just because it leaps out at me as one I could learn to play. That’s how I learned the intro to “High-Heel Sneakers,” for example, and I picked Little Walter’s “Hate To See You Go” because there was so much repetition, and the necessary full-step bend falls on the 10th fret of the G string, an easy spot to control a bend (didn’t use a bend at first, but that makes it).
All my potential answers feel to me like they ramble, I apologize. My main point is, I don’t need to worry about sounding like a copy cat. I have a feeling all my attempts at playing are kind of crude and will always have a bit of sloppiness that I would eliminate if it didn’t cost hours of practice on technical things.
My main thing when I came back to the guitar was to learn “a few” songs, but learn them better and deeper than I did when I was trying to play the American songbook and jazz standards. So far I’ve stuck with that, and I’ve been getting my inspiration anywhere I can, learning directly from recordings as much as I can, but learning extremely valuable things from Brian and a few other online teachers.
Don D.
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February 25, 2019 at 6:58 am #126229
Keith, I like the singers, but I’m not that fond of Phil Keaggy’s electric playing. If anyone hasn’t heard him, give this a try. I’m not a big fan, but I can feel it (I posted this playlist, because it has variety, but the person who made it included some songs twice, so it isn’t what I really intended).
Here’s an old live recording. He got a fair amount of coverage in Acoustic Guitar magazine in the 1990s. You mat be able to find some of that online.
Don D.
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February 25, 2019 at 8:45 pm #126295
We can’t help but be influenced by those and more you mentioned Keith, Just how many original licks are out there, how many of those licks or phrases used?, I agree 100% with both you and Don on the advice given, I certainly don’t want my guitar playing to sound like someone else but it can be difficult when there are so many recognisable licks and phrases associated to certain guitarists
Billy
I know where you are coming from on just how many licks are out there – I think to Don’s point too, that we all emulate our favorite players by learning their songs and that is all part of the learning process.
If we take 3 well known guitarist – Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray and Robin Trower. Was listening to one of Trower’s recent blues albums today as I was traveling and this dawned on me. All 3 of these guitarists were influenced heavily by BB & Albert King among other yet look at the difference in their playing.
Throw Mark Knopfler into the mix or Keith Richards – both have many of the same influences as the first 3 and all have taken those same licks that they’ve learned from the previous generation and its all new……….Creative writers use the same alphabet, dictionary and thesaurus yet the stories that they weave and create come from within them
I’m enjoying this thread because it really emphasizes the need to listen to various sources and as Sponge Bob Squarepants would say – Use your imanginaaattttion.
Don has taken Our Blues Roots much further than I ever would had; his knowledge of older blues amazes me. My knowledge is more of this generation of players and who their influences have been. From what I already know and what I’m picking up from Don, I getting a better idea of where I want to go with my own playing and I’m looking for those avenues & routes to get me there.Here’s a good study. First heard this song by Steppenwolf, as a teenager before I could afford a stereo in my room, I listened to this on my dear ol’ mothers Zenith console stereo so much that she could sing along with it LOL
As you trace it back and hear Muddy Waters’version and then listen to his influence, each is a little different and each is inspirational in it own way. Each stretches the imagination and each shows possibilities
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February 26, 2019 at 2:18 am #126303
With the exception of Kingfish I find those tracks all quite similar in their arrangements or vocals.
Have to admit that I am also enjoying this thread, it’s making me not only think about influences but also which and how many licks I should have in my arsenal....Billy..
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February 26, 2019 at 11:11 am #126334
Did you see Garth Weber’s comment on he Kingfish version? A little inside scoop on the music industry.
Don D.
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February 26, 2019 at 11:18 am #126336
No, sorry Don I must have missed that. I’ll have another listen after I’ve finished cooking tonight’s dinner.
..Billy..
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February 26, 2019 at 11:55 am #126339
I could summarize, but it should have it’s full impact if you see it there. No big deal if you’re busy though, I just thought we could share a little laugh on the lengths people go to deceive on such unimportant matters.
Don D.
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February 26, 2019 at 4:49 am #126310
This thread started out as a shout out to Don Deering for his wise and knowledgeable advice, and I’d like to second that. A few months ago I posted on Soundcloud a bluesy jazzy impro based on the chords of St James Infirmary. I didn’t post it on Active Melody but Don posted a comment on Soundcloud. We exchange a few emails and he pointed me in the direction of the Jump Blues style and particularly Bill Jennings (via Tommy Harkenrider). I love it and am currently learning the Bill Jennings solo from Jakes Blues (Shakey Jake Harris – harmonica player) plus a few embellishments. I hope to post it on Soundcloud in a few weeks.
So a big thank you to Don for his wise, knowledgeable and very generous advice. It’s much appreciated.
Martyn
By the way Billy, I don’t sound anything like Bill Jennings when I play the solo ……….can’t think why!!!-
February 26, 2019 at 11:16 am #126335
Martyn, sure as that is true. .. then again, as long as it doesn’t sound like the harp player then all is fine with this world..hahaha
..Billy..
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February 26, 2019 at 11:42 am #126337
Hey Martyn, I’m glad you found something to reengage with. These other records are things I think you’ll like too.
First, here’s the 1960 Shakey Jake album with Bill Jennings (and Jack McDuff on organ) just in case someone else might get some juice from it. This unconventional album (harmonica and voice, guitar, organ, no drums) was produced by Rudy Van Gelder.
If you like that, you might also like this very nice Bumble Bee Slim album Back In Town with both Joe Pass and Bumble Bee Slim on guitar, Richard Groove Holmes on organ, Les McCann on piano (personnel in link). Bumble Bee Slim was about 57 when this record was made. He’d recorded a lot of 78s in the 1930s, but not much after that until this inspired 1962 session.
Jack McDuff and Richard Groove Holmes both made a lot of funky guitar-organ-drums trio records, with Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Thornel Schwartz (guitarists to look out for), here’s one.
Here’s a playlist leading off with Wayne Bennett and Mickey Baker, moving on to Bill Jennings, Larry Dale (born Ennis Lowery), Billy Butler and Johnny Heartsman. All of those people merit their own playlist… someday. Billy Butler’s part on Bill Doggett’s “Honky Tonk” was once a guitarist’s rite of passage. (My recent post of 50s and 60s blues songs also touched on Wayne Bennett.)
Don D.
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February 26, 2019 at 12:35 pm #126341
Here’s another analogy about licks
If you slide into the 3rd string 4th fret, 2nd string 3rd fret in relation to the key of E and the E minor pentatonic……..
That is one of the most used double stops in blues, bar none, and maybe the most used. I’ve used it extensively when playing fingerstyle acoustic blues as countless other player have. I’ve played the 2 notes together as I slid into them, as 2 separate notes as I slid into them, and as part of a longer phrase. It can be accented in so many ways
Alvin Lee being my #1 British player from the 60’s, Kim Simmonds a close 2nd, I have heard & seen footage of Alvin using that double stop in both his blues & rock ‘n’ roll playing, I’ve seen Kim use it when I saw him playing live. SRV used it, EC has used, Robin Trower used it….everyone that plays blues oriented music uses itYet every use sounds different. Alvin, as an example, always said that he tried to stay away from pre-conceived arrangements for his solos, preferring to “shoot from the hip” and he shot from the hip very well. He would use that double stop in many different ways during his live performances and studio recordings
Oscar Wilde penned the words, “Life imitates Art far more than Art imitates Life”……I’m sure that Wilde’s thoughts with those words were vastly different than this discussion, in the arena of guitar playing and musicianship, we have to imitate our heroes for a time but as we progress, its our desire that our imitation turns into inspiration;
Thiscan be seen with Stevie Ray and Gary Moore (among countless others). Listen to Gary’s CD, Blues For Greeny and then listen to the originals by Peter Green – Gary seemingly copied those songs note for note yet there is a freshness in what Gary played. Same with Stevie when he played Voodoo Chile or Chitlin’ Con Carne or any other remake that he did. Both internalized those licks and very much made them their own
They acquired their skills partly through listening and finally being able to connect their ear to their spirit & soul and the spirit & soul to their hands
Videos from Fil of Wings of Pegasus is a great example of someone that takes a performance apart and has points that stands out that can turn into inspiration
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February 26, 2019 at 6:51 pm #126370
I agree what you said about phrasing, that’s probably the most distinguishing feature, everyone does it their own way. Tone is the other thing. The more you can control what “your way” ends up being, the better off you’ll be.
When I thought about it, I am convinced you’re right, that minor interval of B to D is the most used double-stop. It’s used in “Smokestack Lightning”; I wonder where it was first used that everyone else is picking up on.
Don D.
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February 26, 2019 at 7:51 pm #126374
When I thought about it, I am convinced you’re right, that minor interval of B to D is the most used double-stop. It’s used in “Smokestack Lightning”; I wonder where it was first used that everyone else is picking up on.
Certainly sounds like Robert Johnson was using that double stop – didn’t check if he was playing in E – but it sounds like that he was using it in the songs posted below – and as you said, phrasing. It seems that he is playing those intervals but phrased as only he could.
Another phrase that I noticed that Robert Johnson used over and over and adapted was the turnaround known today as the Robert Johnson Turnaround by many – very original name LOL but Johnson made extensive use of it in many of his songs. Its the turnaround in A that you play 1st string 5th fret, 4th string 5th fret and walk down on the 4th string until you are playing an open position A still holding the A note on the 1st string 5th fret.
Take a listen to a playlist of his songs and notice how much he used this turnaround lick in some form
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